Are Hamas as thick as they are evil?!

[Newbutoldfather]

After seeing masked, uniformed well-fed Hamas soldiers humiliating emaciated hostages, does anyone even feel a shred of sympathy for them?

Can’t they even understand how bad this looks and what the consequences will be both for themselves and, more importantly, for the rest of the Palestinians?

It would be hard for them to be as thick as they are evil, because they are extremely evil, but I think they might have achieved it…

Back to a release by a deadline or else

Who funded them? With out that funding they never would have been a viable political party. Who ran a Mossad operation to discredit less radical opposition and leave Hamas the lead candidates?

Play stupid games win stupid prizes

In your mind are Palestinians responsible for anything, or are they just helpless children?

@SharonEllis ,

It is a long time (18 years) since there was an election in Gaza.

And Hamas had cleverly (helped by Iran) created a civilian infrastructure which genuinely helped Gazans with day-to-day issues. Most people vote with their wallets: I think that is the reason they were elected. It is hard to know how many would have voted for them if they had known what would happen.

As to whether they are ‘stupid children’, a large proportion of them are children! The median age in Gaza is a shocking 19 years old. And they have hardly enjoyed a seemless education in ethics and democracy!

Given the situation they have been living under, it is not surprising that a large number of them have been radicalised. Most populations in war time lose empathy with the enemy. Look at the Russians solidly behind Putin.

Whilst Hamas should be wiped out, the civilians deserve support and a proper deradicalisation program which has to at least hold the promise of education, wealth and a future.

If you invade, occupy and a oppress a population of people they'll resist, that resistance will manifest itself violently. There's nothing unusual about what the Palestinians are doing, under the same circumstances you'll get the same results anywhere.
Only the Israelis have the power the to alter the status quo by accepting the two state solution. Instead of doing that they've lied and manipulated the situation to ensure Hamas got into power to impede any progress towards Palestinian statehood.
So yes I do hold the Israeli government culpable for Hamas being in power.

@Golden407 "play stupid games win stupid prizes"

What do you mean by that? Are you saying Israel deserves what has happened?

@Golden407 ,

‘If you invade, occupy and an oppress a population of people they'll resist, that resistance will manifest itself violently. There's nothing unusual about what the Palestinians are doing, under the same circumstances you'll get the same results anywhere.’

No, what Hamas did and does is absolutely not normal and should never be normalised!

Even if you look at the IRA and ANC they never used rape or torture or tool civilian hostages and mistreated them. They also never deliberately targeted women and children in the same way Hamas have (yes terrorist bombs are indiscriminate, but it’s not the same).

I think trying to normalise the killing of innocent Jews, half of whom were peaceniks (!) qualifies as antisemitic to me.

If you continually attack another country, then they will at a very minimum strengthen their border, and do whatever they can to stop the attackers.

If your army invades a foreign country, rapes and slaughters more than a thousand of their citizens - families in their beds, young people dancing, babies, the old, the vurnerable - and takes another 200 hostages, then they will declare war and try to bring about regime change.

If you declare and demonstrate that you will never stop attacking, and you torture the hostages you kidnapped out of sheer genocidal hatred against every single person in that country, then the country you hate so much will.... open their borders and welcome you in? Are you fucking insane?!?

Israel has the power to not accept this. So they won't.

Anyone who cares the tiniest amount about 'Ordinary Palestinians' should hope that the negotiators will use whatever sympathy and negotiating power they still have to get some kind of future for the individual people who live in Gaza. Not Gaza as a potential state. That boat has sailed.

THANKYOU

You're being disingenuous. Israel has the power to stop this by accepting the two state solution. Hamas have said they will accept this and cease all hostilities, almost all other countries in region have offered to normalise relations with Israel in exchange for a two state solution. Even Iran has indicated it is open to it.
So why not, what's the issue? Ultimately the Israeli government is committed to ethnically cleansing the area and annexing it as part of greater Israel.

As I say the solution lies with Israel

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-f756cc054732eb3f7e0c49a9987560a0

Yes. I wonder why Israel defends itself and its existence. Hamas and its supporters will do it all again, singing and shouting Allah Akbar, as they do. Israel naturally will not allow that, hence the iron dome and wanting buffer zones.

Hamas went too far. Hamas must not continue in power. Do the Palestinian people really want what Hamas offer.

So do you believe that Israel should accept a state on its border run by Hamas? You know, the ones that have many times pledged to wipe the Jews from the area? Seriously?

"You're being disingenuous. Israel has the power to stop this by accepting the two state solution. Hamas have said they will accept this and cease all hostilities"

1. You actually believe what Hamas say 😂
2. Losing and realising that the main players don't want hamas in power they are grasping at anything to stay in power. 🙄
3. They have previously not wanted the 2 state solution but the eradication of Israel and the land from the river to the sea. 🤔

Terrorists are losing control. The display of strength wearing uniforms that they appear to be too scared to wear, or too cowardly during conflict when they hide away, at ceasefire conditions to pretend they have this and are 'winning' regardless of their people. Are they worried their cash of multi millions hidden in other countries might be frozen, their stupid supporters in the west might realise that they aren't honest and want the best for 'their people ' rather than for themselves and continued hatred.

No to hamas. Yes to moderates. Otherwise this will flare up again and again.

Well yes, because Hamas are willing to share a border with Israel, a country that is currently trying to wipe them and the Palestinian people out of existence. What other way forward is there?

You've got things the wrong way round. It is HAMAS whose avowed intention is to wipe Israel off the map.

Hamas are willing to share a border with Israel
No, they're not.

2SS involving Hamas and Gaza is off the table.

And no one will invest tens of billions to rebuild, knowing that with nothing changed, within 10 years there will be another attack on Israel, Israel will respond and destroy it all again.

What now for Gazans?

Hamas have stated they support the two state solution. They may be fanatical but they're not stupid, they know that's the only realistic outcome they can hope for, they're not going to destroy the state of Israel. It's not a realistic proposition.

You're correct the two state solution is of the table for Israel. Israel will go on trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza and Hamas will go on responding violently. Thats it

Unbelievable!

Hamas share a border - what so they can enter music festivals and take young people who are dancing, enter kibbutz so they can take families as hostages. That's after raping, torturing and murdering lots first. Share a border with Hamas, I'd never trust them again; no sane person would!

A new moderate leadership in Gaza, then yes. Hamas have had their years in power and didn't improve the lots of Gazans but did manage to make things much worse whilst also hoarding multi millions abroad.

Why do YOU want Hamas to have another go at sharing a border? Do you still think they should run Gaza 🤔

Why did israel fund Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars and promote them to power ahead of more moderate opposition?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

Israel is committed to the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and believed (correctly) that Hamas would reduce international pressure for a two state solution.
The Israeli government is culpable for the ever worsening cycle of violence.

Hamas wouldn't be in power of the israeli government hasn't wanted them there.

Why play stupid games with peoples lives?

@golden do YOU want hamas to remain in power and share a border?

Do you?

That should be WHY do you want them to share a border again. Following on from your comments upthread.

I would like a peaceful solution. Unfortunately Israel decided to put Hamas in power to give them the excuse not to go ahead with the two state solution.
Ultimately it doesn't matter if Hamas are in power or not whilst Israel is committed to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, Palestinians will continue to resist violently. Only Israel has the power to change the status quo

Or alternatively, Trump negotiates with some countries for them to take voluntary migrants - few enough in each location not to destabilise that country.

Some people emigrate for a better life for their families, as people always have.

Since there's now a way out for any Gazans who genuinely do just want a better life for their family, there's no reason to keep handing over half a billion dollars to terrorists every year. So the terrorist group withers - because they need money and martyrs.

Maybe eventually the US does get control over Gaza, and builds a foothold in the Middle East and an alternative shipping route to rival the Suez canal. That's probably why Egypt is so opposed to the idea!

It doesn't mean that was the plan all along, but Trump is certainly an opportunist. It would be a huge benefit to the US.

Israel probably isn't delighted to have the big guys muscle in on their backyard (hence Netanyahu gripping the podium when he first heard the idea) but it's better than having genocidal terrorists there.

You didn't answer the question.

You already stated that hamas want a 2 state solution now (they didn't before) but why do you want that?

I'm afraid you might have lost all credibility with that gem there. Hamas are willing to share a border with Israel are they? What have the lady 75 years been for then?