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Conflict in the Middle East

Are Hamas as thick as they are evil?!

430 replies

Newbutoldfather · 09/02/2025 08:25

After seeing masked, uniformed well-fed Hamas soldiers humiliating emaciated hostages, does anyone even feel a shred of sympathy for them?

Can’t they even understand how bad this looks and what the consequences will be both for themselves and, more importantly, for the rest of the Palestinians?

It would be hard for them to be as thick as they are evil, because they are extremely evil, but I think they might have achieved it…

OP posts:
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8
QuimCarrey · 13/02/2025 12:49

LoremIpsumCici · 13/02/2025 12:06

I agree, to take one of my examples showing how you don’t have to be Hamas or a sympathiser you can still get crushed by the state as it is fundamentally racist towards Palestinians and turn it into a derail is a diversion we don’t need.

Your post was a derail and would've been better made outside this thread. Neither the booksellers nor the Israeli police who arrested them are in Hamas.

stomachamelon · 13/02/2025 13:16

@LoremIpsumCici do you honestly believe that to be true? I am astounded you would think that.

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 15:41

UnGattino · 10/02/2025 22:48

@GouacheEnthusiast

“A Palestinian for instance may be pretty threatened by 1000s of Israeli flags and signs saying 'Victory to Israel' given the history of the Nakba and all that has followed. Just because you feel threatened it doesn't make something threatening.”

I’ve been to many marches and vigils since Oct 7th, some standing up to the scourge of antisemitism infecting our society (and the wider world), and others to support the hostages and their families, to let them know they have not been forgotten. I have never, ever, seen any signs that read “Victory to Israel”. I suggests those signs exist only in your head.

Also, Nakba. What is that again? Oh yeah, silly me: 76 years ago, Egypt, Iraq, Trans Jordan and Syria, with corps from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, and the Arab Liberation Army INVADED Israel to "Drive all Jews into the Sea." (Their words).

They LOST.

Arabs who supported the war left Israel planning to come back and rape and pillage the Jews once they were defeated. The Arabs who did NOT support the war stayed in Israel and became integrated into society. That's the Nakba. 76 years of INCESSANT WHINING about losing a genocidal war of aggression targeting Jewish people (when you chose war and lose, you have to live with the consequences of defeat).

Also, since you brought it up with you “and all that has followed” comment, can you also explain to us why there was no peace between 1948 and 1967 before the so called "occupation"? Why no call then for a "Palestinian" state when Jordan illegally occupied the west bank? Why was there no peace for Baghdad's Jews in 1941 when up to 1000 were butchered in a pogrom (Farhud), or in Hebron in 1926 etc.

This has zero to do with borders and the exact size of Israel but a total refusal to countenance any form of Jewish sovereignty or power.

300,000 Palestinians were forcibly displaced by Jewish forces in 1947/48 before Arab countries attacked.

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 15:58

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 15:41

300,000 Palestinians were forcibly displaced by Jewish forces in 1947/48 before Arab countries attacked.

To add, Arab countries did use Palestinians for their own ends, no friends really.

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 16:06

Some analysts do not believe, although repeatedly claimed, Israel made a generous offer to the Palestinians at Camp David in 2000.

“With Israel, it will be necessary to challenge some deeply held illusions about the peace process and why it broke down. Chief among these is the assertion that the Palestinians rejected a "generous" Israeli offer at Camp Dlavid two years ago. It is a view that spans the Israeli political spectrum, uniting the hard right with born-again rejectionists like Ehud Barak, confirming all in their belief that political dialogue has been exhausted and that Arafat is an inveterate terrorist. It is time for some constructive revisionism.

Barak's proposal for a Palestinian state based on 91% of the West Bank sounded substantive, but even the most cursory glance at the map revealed the bad faith inherent in it. It showed the West Bank carved into three chunks, surrounded by Israeli troops and settlers, without direct access to its own international borders.

The land-swap that was supposed to compensate the Palestinians for the loss of prime agricultural land in the West Bank merely added insult to injury. The only territory offered to Palestinian negotiators consisted of stretches of desert adjacent to the Gaza Strip that Israel currently uses for toxic waste dumping. The proposals on East Jerusalem were no better, permitting the Palestinians control of a few scattered fragments of what had been theirs before 1967.

Barak offered the trappings of Palestinian sovereignty while perpetuating the subjugation of the Palestinians. It is not difficult to see why they felt unable to accept. The only surprise is how widely the myth of the "generous offer" is now accepted.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/10/comment

The brilliant offer Israel never made

To get peace talks started again means confronting a few myths, writes David Clark.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/10/comment

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 16:26

Always liked Ami Dar’s (Israeli in US) x.com posts.

Are Hamas as thick as they are evil?!
Are Hamas as thick as they are evil?!
LetThereBeLove · 13/02/2025 16:29

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 15:41

300,000 Palestinians were forcibly displaced by Jewish forces in 1947/48 before Arab countries attacked.

700,000+ Jews were forcibly displaced from Arab countries in 1947/1948.

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 16:45

LetThereBeLove · 13/02/2025 16:29

700,000+ Jews were forcibly displaced from Arab countries in 1947/1948.

I know. Though note the Jewish exodus from Iraq and other Arab countries took place a few years after the Palestinian exodus.

“Comparing the Jewish Exodus and the Palestinian Exodus

The Israelis and their supporters have often argued that the experience of the Jewish refugees can be equated with that of the Palestinian refugees. Both left their countries due to violence or threats of violence. Unlike the Palestinians, however, who remained in refugee camps rather than being offered homes elsewhere, the Jewish refugees were welcomed and resettled in the Jewish State of Israel. Their settlement inside Israel constitutes (so the argument goes) a direct and legitimate exchange of populations.

The Arab view is almost dichotomous. The Jewish refugees were respected and equal citizens of Arab countries, but were persuaded to leave by malicious Zionist propaganda. Unlike the Palestinian refugees, they left voluntarily and are welcome to return at any time.

As the above discussion has demonstrated, neither of these perspectives reflects the complexity of the Jewish exodus. To be sure, there are some superficial similarities between the two exoduses. However, the differences between the two exoduses are arguably far more significant.

Firstly, the Palestinian expulsion occurred under conditions of external war and conflict, whereas the Jewish departure from Iraq primarily reflected internal political developments. In addition, the Jewish departure reflected far more diverse factors. As already noted, many Jews were strongly motivated by Zionist beliefs, and voluntarily left Iraq for Israel (Tessler 1994:309).

Secondly, the two exoduses did not concur chronologically. The Jewish exodus from Iraq and other Arab countries took place a number of years after the Palestinian exodus. There is no evidence that the Israeli leadership anticipated a so-called population exchange when they made their arguably harsh decision to prevent the return of Palestinian refugees (Morris 1987:254-255).
Thirdly, it is important to remember that the Arab States, not the Palestinians, were responsible for the Jewish exodus.

Finally, Israel agreed to accept the Jewish refugees who subsequently integrated with varying degrees of success into Israeli society, and looked towards the future. Unlike the Palestinians, most of the Jewish refugees had little or no desire to return to their former homes in Baghdad or elsewhere. In contrast, the Arab states refused to facilitate an organized resettlement of Palestinian refugees. Consequently, most looked backwards, and held onto hopes of a return to Palestine (Segre 1971:126).

This analysis demonstrates that the two exoduses are not identical in motivation and cause, and should be considered separately.

On the one hand, Arab denial of the contribution made by anti-Jewish hostility to the Jewish exodus from Iraq and elsewhere is insensitive and ahistorical. Jewish refugees from Arab lands should be entitled to some form of compensation for abandoned lands and property. There is no reason why organizations such as the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries (WOJAC) should not be formally represented in negotiations between Israel and the Arab states (Goldberg 1999; Khalidi 1999:235).

On the other hand, it is equally insensitive for Israel to use the experience of the Jewish refugees as a justification for its treatment of the Palestinian refugees. The latter group also have a justifiable claim for financial compensation (Mendes 1996:96; Mendes 1997:208).”

By
Philip Mendes Latrobe University
Presented at the 14 Jewish Studies Conference Melbourne March 2002

Above says “whereas the Jewish departure from Iraq primarily reflected internal political developments”. This included discrimination and killing.

bodydrain · 13/02/2025 16:54

Further to above:

”Above says “whereas the Jewish departure from Iraq primarily reflected internal political developments”. This included discrimination and killing against the Jewish population.

LetThereBeLove · 13/02/2025 16:54

The Jewish refugees were respected and equal citizens of Arab countries, but were persuaded to leave by malicious Zionist propaganda. Unlike the Palestinian refugees, they left voluntarily and are welcome to return at any time.
Is this man for real? And why are you repeating it here? It is complete garbage. Jews were 'respected and equal citizens' until they were not. They were forced to leave their homes and businesses and given refuge elsewhere in the world, including Israel.

Newbutoldfather · 13/02/2025 17:07

My best friend at school was a Sephardi Jew.

His father was an ENT surgeon who was exiled from Egypt under President Nasser. This was under an arabisation policy which made Egypt a very hostile environment for Jews.

OP posts:
OpheliaWasntMad · 13/02/2025 17:16

LoremIpsumCici · 13/02/2025 11:51

They weren’t being heard anyway and had not been for as long as Netanyahu has been in power.

Moderate voices existed in the Kibbutzim.
Many of those who were killed or taken hostage on October 7th were people who were involved in peace initiatives and building bridges with Palestinians.
Yet Hamas targeted them and the festival goers and killed, raped and mutilated men women and children and took others hostage.
It’s hard to see where the moderate voices in Israel will come from now .

stomachamelon · 13/02/2025 18:06

No only is that rubbish not relevant to this thread but it's factually incorrect. What a spin.... I don't know where to start on the ridiculousness of reposting that...@bodydrain

stomachamelon · 13/02/2025 18:09

So welcomed back with open arms that in some Arab countries NO Jews have chosen to return to their own countries, homelands etc.

Rubbish.

Fifiworks · 13/02/2025 19:21

LetThereBeLove · 13/02/2025 16:54

The Jewish refugees were respected and equal citizens of Arab countries, but were persuaded to leave by malicious Zionist propaganda. Unlike the Palestinian refugees, they left voluntarily and are welcome to return at any time.
Is this man for real? And why are you repeating it here? It is complete garbage. Jews were 'respected and equal citizens' until they were not. They were forced to leave their homes and businesses and given refuge elsewhere in the world, including Israel.

You’re not reading it correctly. He is laying out both the Israeli and the Arab view of this and saying why they are both wrong basically,

hellohellooo · 13/02/2025 19:23

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LetThereBeLove · 13/02/2025 19:25

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dairydebris · 13/02/2025 19:26

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You think Hamas had good reason for 7 October and you say it openly here.

Atangledweb · 14/02/2025 12:54

According to Palestinian media reports, the rocket launched from Gaza a short while ago struck the Nuseirat area in the Strip’s center, killing a 14-year-old boy.

Footage posted online purports to show the launch.

So they breached the ceasefire and sadly killed one of their own people a Palestinian child in the process. Not only evil but stupid.

Lalaloveya · 14/02/2025 13:56

That's absolutely tragic. I really wish both sides would commit to the ceasefire for the sake of all civilians involved but I am not hopeful that we will see it through.

Israel has killed over 100 people in Gaza since the ceasefire was announced, as reported by Al Jazeera. I assumed this figure must include the people they've murdered in the West Bank too but it doesn't appear to. I may have misunderstood the report though.

Atangledweb · 19/02/2025 08:16

I saw this story about the former leaders of Hamas. Who's running the show now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67103298

BaMamma · 20/02/2025 23:55

Today's failed bomb attack would suggest that they are, indeed, quite thick as they set the timers wrong, thankfully.

quantumbutterfly · 21/02/2025 01:42

In answer to the op, nobody could be that thick. If they are as thick as they are evil they would have the IQ of an amoeba and since they appear to be functioning at a slightly higher intellectual level I must conclude they are on balance more evil than thick.

quantumbutterfly · 21/02/2025 01:46

Their supporters in 'the West' are another matter.