Are Hamas as thick as they are evil?!

[Newbutoldfather]

After seeing masked, uniformed well-fed Hamas soldiers humiliating emaciated hostages, does anyone even feel a shred of sympathy for them?

Can’t they even understand how bad this looks and what the consequences will be both for themselves and, more importantly, for the rest of the Palestinians?

It would be hard for them to be as thick as they are evil, because they are extremely evil, but I think they might have achieved it…

And your view on Hamas is …..? 🙄

This IS a thread about Hamas after all … the marches were only referenced in relation to the lack of posters condemning Hamas.
Funnily enough the poster above has kind of proved the tactics some poster use to attack , deflect and minimise- anything but talk about Hamas.

That’s not your view - that’s a factual statement.
Don’t worry- I understand!

after another one of your cronies couldnt separate someone being critical of Israel and someone supporting Hamas.

I think for some that separation is wafer thin if not non exist. Thinly veiled too hence the fact it's picked up on all.the.time.

Just to say I have been to several of the marches to free the hostages and can confirm that they were peaceful marches, no arrests or trouble- every marcher holding a picture of a hostage, from a 9 month old baby to the elderly. There were speeches by members of the hostages' families, and prayers. Then everyone went home.

"Oh maybe that explains why the pro Israel posters here run quicker than Bolt in an Olympic final when asked to condemn things like apartheid and torture? Afraid someone will think they support Hamas too."

Apartheid? Countless arabs living and working happily in Israel with equal rights and opportunities. Remind me how many Israelis living in Arab countries?

@GouacheEnthusiast

“A Palestinian for instance may be pretty threatened by 1000s of Israeli flags and signs saying 'Victory to Israel' given the history of the Nakba and all that has followed. Just because you feel threatened it doesn't make something threatening.”

I’ve been to many marches and vigils since Oct 7th, some standing up to the scourge of antisemitism infecting our society (and the wider world), and others to support the hostages and their families, to let them know they have not been forgotten. I have never, ever, seen any signs that read “Victory to Israel”. I suggests those signs exist only in your head.

Also, Nakba. What is that again? Oh yeah, silly me: 76 years ago, Egypt, Iraq, Trans Jordan and Syria, with corps from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, and the Arab Liberation Army INVADED Israel to "Drive all Jews into the Sea." (Their words).

They LOST.

Arabs who supported the war left Israel planning to come back and rape and pillage the Jews once they were defeated. The Arabs who did NOT support the war stayed in Israel and became integrated into society. That's the Nakba. 76 years of INCESSANT WHINING about losing a genocidal war of aggression targeting Jewish people (when you chose war and lose, you have to live with the consequences of defeat).

Also, since you brought it up with you “and all that has followed” comment, can you also explain to us why there was no peace between 1948 and 1967 before the so called "occupation"? Why no call then for a "Palestinian" state when Jordan illegally occupied the west bank? Why was there no peace for Baghdad's Jews in 1941 when up to 1000 were butchered in a pogrom (Farhud), or in Hebron in 1926 etc.

This has zero to do with borders and the exact size of Israel but a total refusal to countenance any form of Jewish sovereignty or power.

Ha! You don’t know the meaning of the word “apartheid”. Because you are ignorant. A key difference between the nature of the Israeli-Arab conflict and South African apartheid is that Israeli policies in the occupied West Bank—checkpoints, movement restrictions, and so forth—are rooted in legitimate security concerns (remember the first and second intifadas?) rather than racism. Because the world now seems to have become desensitised to the word security through overuse, it is crucial to remember what it really means. Security means preventing what happened on October 7—which Hamas has promised to do over and over again, if given the chance.

Many who are critical of Israel jump on the idea that defenders of South African apartheid also used “security” as a justification for the apartheid system. The difference is that in the case of South Africa, it was a false pretext. In apartheid South Africa, marriage (and even sex) between blacks and whites was punishable by prison time. South African officials would decide your race (and therefore your fate) by running a comb through an individual’s hair. If it ran all the way through without too much resistance, you were considered legally white. Such policies, which formed the cornerstone of apartheid South Africa, were not the result of security concerns but of an ideological obsession with racial classification and a horror at the thought of “race-mixing.” Such policies would be unthinkable in Israel, where Arab Israelis are full citizens, where they have the right to vote, serve in the Israeli parliament and the Knesset, and sit on the Supreme Court. As with every society on earth, there is racism in Israel - and no doubt that extends into the occupied areas of the West Bank. But frankly, if you’re looking for the closest analogue to the racist propaganda experienced by blacks in European-offshoot societies, you will find it not on the Israeli side but on you don’t know the meaning of the word “apartheid”. Because you are ignorant. A key difference between the nature of the Israeli-Arab conflict and South African apartheid is that Israeli policies in the occupied West Bank—checkpoints, movement restrictions, and so forth—are rooted in legitimate security concerns rather than racism. Because the world now seems to have become desensitised to the word security through overuse, it is crucial to remember what it really means. Security means preventing what happened on October 7—which Hamas has promised to over and over again if given the chance.
Many who are critical of Israel jump on the idea that defenders of South African apartheid also used “security” as a justification for the apartheid system. The difference is that in the case of South Africa, it was a false pretext. In apartheid South Africa, marriage (and even sex) between blacks and whites was punishable by prison time. South African officials would decide your race (and therefore your fate) by running a comb through an individual’s hair. If it ran all the way through without too much resistance, you were considered legally white. Such policies, which formed the cornerstone of apartheid South Africa, were not the result of security concerns but of an ideological obsession with racial classification and a horror at the thought of “race-mixing.” Such policies would be unthinkable in Israel, where Arab Israelis are full citizens, where they have the right to vote, serve in the Israeli parliament and the Knesset, and sit on the Supreme Court. As with every society on earth, there is racism in Israel - and no doubt that extends into the occupied areas of the West Bank. But frankly, if you’re looking for the closest analogue to the racist propaganda experienced by blacks in European-offshoot societies, you will find it not on the Israeli side but on the Palestinian side. Have you seen the ghoulish, antisemitic TV programs that indoctrinate Palestinian children? Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews from when they start nursery. Nothing even remotely like this takes place in Israel. Hating Palestinians isn’t on the curriculum for their children. Falsely labelling Israel an apartheid state is not just a smear on the region’s only democracy (and a highly problematic one at that given the fact that it’s a lie started and propagated by the Soviet Union in the 1960s when it was severely oppressing its Jewish population and was worried about the backlash from the international community) but a barrier to a peace process and solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as well. Demonising Israel, singling it out for criticism and holding it to standards never applied to other countries, drives people apart and makes dialogue and discussion more remote.

Something went wrong with the copy and paste, I think. Did you write it, or is it from another text?

@GouacheEnthusiast Ah, OK. I thought it was from a book, but then wasn't sure if maybe the poster had typed in Word and then copied over, but that would be very odd.

🍉

Let’s hope the Palestinians can be rid of Hamas so the next generation do not have to live under their evil shadow.
I hope the moderate Israelis remove Netanyahu’s government also so that some sort of healing can begin.

I think Hamas’s pause on releasing hostages has just proved my point about their stupidity.

I can only think that there are no more living hostages or that they have tortured the remaining ones so badly that releasing them would be worse than the alternative.

But, either way, they have green lighted Netanyahu, with Trump’s support and blessing to finish the job, whether that means full invasion, or even ethnic cleansing.

The rest of the Arab World will just sit back and watch, including Iran, who have probably been firmly told to keep quiet or lose their nukes and leadership.

And remember, if Hamas release the hostages promptly and in good condition, none of the above will happen. In fact, a large part of the World will support a two state solution. And at least the Palestinians could live without the fear of losing their lives and constant bombardment and drones overhead.

Israel has funded Hamas with billions of dollars and supported them in their bid for power.
They believed (correctly) that Hamas wouldn't be received well by the international community. There wouldn't be any invitations to the white house for Hamas leadership unlike the PLO under Yasser Arafat. As such the pressure for a two state solution would reduce.
Blaming ordinary Palestinians for the election of Hamas is ridiculous

Who voted for them?

Could you explain where PP’s post is inaccurate?” That would be more helpful than simply slapping the “hasbara” label on it.

Yes, I would be interested too. I was actively involved in campaigning against apartheid & thought it was thorough and accurate.