To think Trump is unhinged

[Loveumagenta]

As well as dangerous? He wants to help the Israelis in their ethnic cleansing of Gaza and own it so he can turn it into a holiday destination with the Palestinians packed off somewhere.

His greed really knows no bounds.

YABU - it’s a great idea, can’t wait to go to the new ‘riviera’!

YANBU - his threats to other countries and dangerous for the world.

Well, that's the question. One person, just one in all these threads and discussions involving mostly very pri-Palestinian posters has come up with some suggestions for leadership outside Hamas. Its interesting isnt it? I would think regional powers have to get involved not least to counterbalance the US. But external powers are regarded as colonialist. Noone who talks about colonialism on these threads (a lot of people) seems interested in articulating how to deal with that conundrum.

Maybe the involvement of other governments is necessary to support an internal peace process (e.g northern ireland).

Which other governments were involved in Northern Ireland?

Summary here of some of the suggestions put forward by different states. This was all pre-trump so America's position seems to have changed

https://vision-pd.org/en/a-study-on-governance-options-and-future-scenarios-for-the-gaza-strip/

Northern Ireland was very different it is part of the UK. The British government, Irish Government, and two parties Sinn Fein (with affiliation to IRA) and the PUP (with affiliation to UVF) were involved brokered by the US

United States. George Mitchell and others essentisl part of the process.

I genuinely do not understand what your expectation is of mumsnet posters. People have ideas and opinions on a situation but as far as I am aware most of us are not experts, and will comment on the ideas and views of the experts. We are on the periphery here. I don't expect pro israeli posters on here to have ail the answers or know what is best, that would be bonkers. No one seems to, things are going back and forth on every discussion commentary on the situation, has done for decades

One person, just one in all these threads and discussions involving mostly very pri-Palestinian posters has come up with some suggestions for leadership outside Hamas. Its interesting isnt it?
One person? the future of Gaza has been discussed numerous times and there are many opinions on it here and elsewhere but you seem to think posters here should have the answers or a deep insight into who is in a position to rule, when no one here or elsewhere seems to have a clear view as to what is best.

I would think regional powers have to get involved not least to counterbalance the US. But external powers are regarded as colonialist. Noone who talks about colonialism on these threads (a lot of people) seems interested in articulating how to deal with that conundrum.
There is a big difference, which most people can recognise, between an external power taking over and an external power/ or regional collaborators coming in to support a transition and oversee a governance process involving the local population.

I suspect a great deal of what now happens will hinge on how the Saudis react. Trump wants billions of dollars of Saudi investment and their help to bring oil prices down. They are somehow going to have to use that as leverage with Trump to get him to backtrack, negotiate a pact with Israel (the mind boggles) and reassure the Palestinians that they will still have their own state. They'll also want to keep Iran onside following the agreement they both reached in 2023 but without seeing them increase their leverage or power in the region.

Northern Ireland isn't a great precedent but there are some interesting parallels. First, it shows that with time and the complete renunciation of violence the political wing of a terrorist organisation can become a serious party of government and even appeal to its former enemies. Second, both Hamas (initially) and Sinn Fein (eventually) won electoral majorities because they concentrated on things that actually matter for ordinary people in their day to day lives - metaphorically, they managed to get the bins emptied every week.

For the wider political situation I wonder if the more interesting precedent is perhaps what happened in Kampuchea in 1979. The Vietnamese government got sick and tired of the Khymer Rouge's border skirmishes and pot shots at them so invaded it and installed a government of former Khymer Rouge fighters who were now loyal to them. Pol Pot, Ta Mok and the rest of them continued a guerilla war for over a decade until a UN Peackeeping force was established in, I think, 1991. Cambodia is now a thriving peaceful place, well-integrated into the regional economy and open to the world.

So far he's backed down on most things he's said (external to the US anyway) Tariffs on Canada and Mexico kicked down the road, invading Panama kicked down the road. Gone quiet on taking over Greenland, watered down takeover of Gaza and no one in the region will go along with it, except possibly Israel. You can hardly believe anything he says.

The aid situation is bad, perhaps China will step in, they are cultivating friendships all round the world as Trump destroys the bonds with the US, a lot of the friendships with other countries will take years to repair if it is even possible.

He seems to think he has limitless power and the world is his own private fiefdom.

maybe you’d prefer Chinese help, they don’t care about human rights at all so they could get much further in all honesty, doing trade with regimes that make your toes curl

(It might not be a bad thing)

And the US is currently displaying its commitment to human rights... how, exactly?

American foreign policy establishment believes pushing democracy is pretty much the same as pushing human rights (I think it’s stupidly naive but whatever). Some of USAIDs biggest programs were to support independent journalists (anti-regime activists, if you took a negative view of these things)

I could prefer China’s approach, which is not ideological and based on hard commerce and trade.

Do you know anyone in the countries that China floods with its cheap nasty goods? Undermining local economies & producers and breeding deoendency in the name of trade. Its the opposite of development.

People like to hate on Chinese goods.
And I do recognize that the domestic market gets undermined (Americans know this very well)

But in many markets there are truly no alternatives, they haven’t built hardly any manufacturing capacity so if there weren’t Chinese goods there would be way less stuff altogether. May as well sell raw materials so you can get finished products back

Anyway it’s ultimately better if China builds roads and ports (to get raw materials out LOL) than America supporting anti-regime journalists and feeding the lowest decile.

One might actually change things for the better.

Thats the point of development aid, to build capacity for alternatives.

Those are not the only options. Effective American aid was about developing agricultural capacity, not just 'feeding the lowest decile'.

‘Way less stuff altogether’ is precisely what humanity needs. Well those of us in the wealthier nations. That stuff is literally killing us.. More stuff = more carbon emitted into the atmosphere = more extreme weather = more deaths, more disease, less food, less water, more immigration, more conflict and more death and ultimately extinction. So that’s the problem with manufacturing loads of stuff in China.

It is ideological. Of course it is.

While I get that in theory, several decades of this sort of aid has not really led to increased capacity, has it?

I’m just ready to abandon it.

An finally, I can post in my own thread again!

The Saudis will help rebuild Gaza. Obvs just not so that it can be ethnically cleansed and turned into a playpark for Americans and Israelis.

Easy to ignore?!

The Art of the Surge, available to view for free on X is a good watch, the dynamic between Trump and Musk is fascinating. A small team made it and followed the campaign/Trump including when he got shot. His close team, aids, comms are mostly women and all his team have continued into the White House. It’s frightening how together the actual campaign and his team are. The crew are still with him filming for Part 2. I am surprised it hasn’t got much publicity in the UK. Many scenes are straight out of something like Succession.