Trump announces the US will take over the Gaza strip

[Atangledweb]

Announcement by Trump.

Take over and 'own it'

New thread since new announcements

If you think a plan for temporary accommodation on a voluntary basis would be feasible and honoured by several of the major parties, that's your opinion, but it's relevant to the thread that this is not what has actually been proposed. There are people who genuinely consider the proposal to ethnically cleanse Gaza to be feasible and a good idea, and it's important for there to be clarity that forcibly removing people from their homeland is not ok, that this proposal is not something which could be made ok, and that any process of annexation should not have efforts made to normalise it.

Personally, I don't think you can trust either the US or Israel to allow anyone back to Palestine if they leave, and everyone who has to make a decision about staying or leaving has to make their choice with that in mind.

The Palestinian people have received billions in aid over many years and have their own charity just for them. No other group eg Sudan, get the same special treatment. It will.keep on rolling in.

Maybe if terrorists living amongst then stopped attacking others people could live in peace and move forward. This ongoing hatred for Israel has brought nothing but disaster and hamas need to go. Lifelong refugee status and permanent aid doesn't help, it keeps it all rolling on and on. New government of a more peaceful nature would help. Just chucking money in whilst hamas rebuild themselves whilst hamas rebuild ready for the next attack won't help. No one seems to think there's any moderates around to set up if hamas goes. An election would be interesting, would they just want hamas again. They appear to have many men supporters when they hand over hostages during their strutting around. I feel for the innocents trapped in that ongoing situation. The 2 state solution seems impossible now with Israel never trusting another attack isn't being planned. It was a massive terrorist attack that appears to be swept under the carpet but it started this particular stage of the ongoing hatred. When other countries have offered sanctuary to Palestinians it was repayed with terrorist attacks eg Jordan etc.

Israel also need a better government and when they have elections the people can decide, let's hope the existing government go too.

I think you also simplify history. The Jewish population ceased to be the majority in the 4th century AD. The world was a very different place then and many "nations" which no longer exist or are now tiny minorities were in existence - think American first peoples, Latin America and Australia just for a start. The people who lived in the region also had a "homeland" - based on centuries of family and community. Just because they are "ethnically and religiously similar" to the population of neighbouring countries does not mean they have no ties to this land. The Jewish population only increased as a result of planned migration from the 1880s with an express wish to re-establish a Jewish homeland (which included through violent means), and the Jewish leaders at the time fully acknowledged that this would mean the local existing population would be losers in this. I also fully acknowledge the circumstance that drove this migration (particularly in the mid part of the 20th century) but it's disingenuous to underplay the Palestinians ties to the land just because they were not an established "nation" and be surprised that they resented and resisted the establishment of a state that excluded them (and led to the Nakba).

Again, I KNOW ITS NOT WHAT TRUMP PROPOSED.

I'm pretty sure others posting on this thread are also aware of that too. I'm sure they don't need continually reminding. Posters aren't stupid and know what he said, hence the jaw drops.

There are several alternatives to Hamas or PIJ, ranging from established politicians to popular figures. The Israeli government, Iran and others put a lot of effort into facilitating groups such as Hamas and keeping others down, but feasible alternatives do exist.

I didn't see a single person underplay Palestinian ties to the land. I think most people accept Palestinian ties to the land, I know I do.

We were simply pointing out the Jewish history on the land too. Many on here seem simply unaware of a lot of Jewish history, its almost as if they just popped up in the 1940's - it's quite surprising to see sometimes.

The reason countries pour aid into elsewhere is for trade/development opportunities they wouldn't otherwise get. It was colonialism before - now it's zones of influence - but the motivation is the same. It's usually backed by mitary strength, but isn't usually one-way since the country also benefits from the infrastructure development and resource extraction which they wouldn't otherwise have the money (or expertise in many cases) to do themselves. Trade is mutually beneficial.

The US already pours enormous amounts of money into the region. It isn't only Israel who gets aid ($3 Billion a year). The US also give $1.5 Billion a year to Egypt, $1.7 Billion to Jordan, and $0.5 Billion a year to the Palestinians (who also get another $0.6 Billion from the EU and $0.2 Billion from the Arab states). That's normal aid, without any rebuilding.

The US obviously do expect to benefit from those huge sums of money: mainly that the increased stability in the region means that they can do (mutually beneficial) business there. And there's the occasional political favour.

I can't see the US funding the rebuilding of Gaza unless they get some benefit. I suspect that Trump's recent announcement is as much as anything a signal to the Arab countries. The US are willing to do xyz. If that's not what other regional powers want, then they need to step up now and propose an alternative.

I don't know whether the Arab states will. I'm not sure that anyone wants to pour billions into rebuilding Gaza when it's likely that the conflict will restart in a few years. Not sure where that leaves the Gazans.

I didn't in any way, underplay Palestiniam connection to the region. I was responding to balance another person's post. Nor do a people have to be in a majority to have rights of self determination. How do you identify a majority with ever changing boundaries anyway? No normal reading of my post would think it was in any way claiming to be a complete history of the existence of different peoples in this region.

Can you tell us more? Who are the alternatives how popular are they and what proposals are they putting forward? Who are they backed by outside gaza?

Who are those? What are they called? It would be nice to see some actual proposals.

This doesn’t sound what trump said when he was saying “we are going to make something for them so amazing that why would they want to come back”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9xgj2429o

Could you please provide more information on what political alternatives there are to Hamas in Gaza?

My understanding is that Hamas eliminated any opposition from Fatah. And that Hamas is more popular than Fatah in the West Bank.

@1dayatatime thats roughly my understanding too. Its odd this, isnt it? I've asked couple of times recently for ideas for peace from a Palestinian perspective. This would have to include alternatives to Hamas as obviously there is no prace with Hamas. Ive been told there are loads, google is my friend etc but nothing else is forthcoming. Im really genuinely interested in options that Palestinians put forward.

We seem to be teetering on the edge here of some posters seeing ethnic cleansing as a perfectly valid option because 'who else is going to take charge'. WTAF!!!!

This is how it happend guys.
Those horrific things from the past where we wondered how the world stood by.
But here on MN, we have had posters these last few days backing the forcible explusion of millions of people from their land. Some suggesting they could be used for labour in Saudi. It's a small step from there to suggesting camps are built for them to work from...

Can't you see, things that you would have considered abhorrent a few years ago. Things that you would consider unthinkable if it were any other ethnic group. Things that if it were applied to the Israelis living along that coast rather than the Palestinians would bring very uncomfortable parallels.

But the Palestinians are fair game seemingly.

This is how it happens.

No idea why this is addressed to me as I am not, and have not, suggested or supported proposals for ethnic cleansing. I was asking for viable options for peace from a Palestinian petspective before Trumps announcement. I posted that I thought Trumps suggestion would be catastrophic soon after he made it.

So we have dralt with that insinuation. Can we get back to the point.

How can peace move forward without proposals from the Palestinians and their supporters? This is how ALL peace processes work. Why does suggesting it illicit reactions like yours?

Do you have an idea of who will pay for it if no US contributions?

Hamas is very rich. Their assets ahould be seized. Its crazy it hasnt been done more effectively. That would be a contribution.

I'm glad that you also think the plan would be catastrophic.

The 'what else can we do' has been raised by a few people in support of trump's plan, as if it's up to the Palestinians to come up with a plan to avoid ethnic cleansing. I'm glad if you aren't one of them.

It's a very dangerous ideology though, and one we need to back away from.

The leadership of Gaza is a totally separate issue from Trump's plan.

But its a central issue to putting forward an alternative to trump's plan. It doesnt matter who asks the question. The question is a valid one that needs an answer.If there hadnt been a complete vacuum it wouldnt have been so easy for him to put forward such a plan. Its even more urgent now that he's on manoeuvres

And obviously its up to Palestinians to come up with a plan for their self determination. Who the hell else should do it? They need active partners of course but they have to have a plan. Anyone else will be accused of colonialism!

No.

It's NEVER up to a group to come up with a plan to stop them being victims of crimes against humanity.

That's victim blaming.

Crimes against humanity are not justifiable like that.

No Im not saying they need a plan to avoid crimes against humanity committed against them. Obviously that is not their responsibility

But Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October and committed crimes against humanity. Israel obviously needs reassurances on security. After the phased ceasefire, what happens? Are you seriously saying Palestinians should not have any plan for their self determination? Should have no plan to rid themselves of their autocratic theocratic leadership? No plan to extricate themselves from Iran? No plan to rebuild their society and ensure security for them and Israel? Because if that is what you are saying then what happens next? Who should come up with the plan if not palestinians?

@SharonEllis your reply surprised me in that I hadn't considered that angle

Is it likely?

It would be a good start, I'm not sure how much it would fund in overall need

Israel's defence minister ordered the army on Thursday to prepare a plan to allow the "voluntary departure" of residents from Gaza, after U.S. President Donald Trump drew widespread condemnation for announcing plans to take over the strip.

voluntary?! What will happen with those that don’t want to voluntary leave? Also why should IDF take part on this?? Finally , is there not a ceasefire in place ? Can’t they really see that voluntary forcing people to leave their land will break this ceasefire and risk civilians and hostages lives?

Countries like Spain, Ireland, Norway, and others, which have levelled accusations and false claims against Israel over its actions in Gaza, are legally obligated to allow any Gaza resident to enter their territories," he said.

countries that oppose to ethnics cleansing should contribute on ethnic cleansing?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-defense-minister-orders-army-prepare-gaza-residents-departure-media-2025-02-06/

Hamas will use most of their funding to rebuild their tunnels and obtain weapons with which to attack Israel again. Palestinians need someone other than terrorists to represent them.