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Conflict in the Middle East

Gaza death toll rises to close to 62000 as missing added

449 replies

Lalaloveya · 03/02/2025 16:42

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/3/gaza-death-toll-rises-close-to-62000-as-missing-added

The new death toll includes 17,881 children, including 214 newborn infants.

At least 1,155 medical personnel, 205 journalists and 194 civil defence workers are reported to have been killed.

More than 2million people have been displaced and 111,588 people injured.

Deaths from Israel’s attacks on Gaza close to 62,000 as missing added

Local authorities add 14,000 people, missing and presumed dead, to the list.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/3/gaza-death-toll-rises-close-to-62000-as-missing-added

OP posts:
IAmAHomewardBounder · 03/02/2025 19:58

Whatsinanamehey · 03/02/2025 19:46

The fact that you would use this article to try and prove that the IDF tried is concerning. I don't even know what to say.

Can I ask if you even read the article?

Obviously I read it. I maybe digested it differently to you though.

Any comment on the audio of the man happy for his children to become martyrs? Is that acceptable parenting to you?

Dulra · 03/02/2025 19:58

IAmAHomewardBounder · 03/02/2025 19:42

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67327079

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTV8E8pz1ZA

Both of these links demonstrate that the IDF has, in some cases at least, attempted to mitigate deaths in Gaza. Not all the blame for civilian deaths in this war can be laid at their feet.

That article is 3 weeks in to the conflict. It proves nothing. People were moved and moved and moved again into "safe zones" which were then bombed. The IDF did not attempt to reduce civilian casualties, they even restricted aid getting access to the population which contributed to their deaths.

SummerFeverVenice · 03/02/2025 20:03

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Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 03/02/2025 20:03

Fordian · 03/02/2025 19:39

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats
The historic revisionism visited upon RAF bombing raids etc are really of no use, here.

My parents both served in the RAF in ww2.
Understandably neither really accepted any criticism of the UK's forces. The next generation has been able to take a more balanced approach.
Equally I hope your children are able to have a more balanced view than yours and be able to recognise that the IDF is not above criticism.

RoostersSpot · 03/02/2025 20:03

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Lalaloveya · 03/02/2025 20:07

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Early in the conflict I mentioned and posted an article about Israel paying people to post pro-Israeli propaganda online and the post was deleted so I haven't mentioned anything along those lines since. Some facts are not allowed on here.

OP posts:
Dulra · 03/02/2025 20:08

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You can choose to believe what you want. The evidence is there

Lalaloveya · 03/02/2025 20:08

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Yes, I'm the one blinded by propaganda 😂

OP posts:
SummerFeverVenice · 03/02/2025 20:09

I would hope that the coldest, most inhumane comments sneering at the slaughter of 17k children were written by AI and not a living, feeling human being.

Liv999 · 03/02/2025 20:12

SummerFeverVenice · 03/02/2025 20:09

I would hope that the coldest, most inhumane comments sneering at the slaughter of 17k children were written by AI and not a living, feeling human being.

Me too but I fear not

RoostersSpot · 03/02/2025 20:12

Lalaloveya · 03/02/2025 20:08

Yes, I'm the one blinded by propaganda 😂

At least you admit it then.

EasterIssland · 03/02/2025 20:12

dairydebris · 03/02/2025 18:20

Oh for goodness sake. Yes. Of course the I D F has killed before. It's an army. Has the RAF killed before? Have the Marines killed before?
Do you understand what a Defence Force is for?

Yes I do. IDF has done so many mistakes and killed innocent civilians that just because RAF does it too I wont stop blaming IDF for the killings they’ve done

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2025 20:18

Atangledweb · 03/02/2025 17:09

Did hamas even think before planning 7th October (over many, many months) that it would not be the best course of action!

Is Hamas Israel’s puppeteer?

Whatsinanamehey · 03/02/2025 20:21

SummerFeverVenice · 03/02/2025 20:09

I would hope that the coldest, most inhumane comments sneering at the slaughter of 17k children were written by AI and not a living, feeling human being.

I would hope so too.

Scirocco · 03/02/2025 20:41

Because I think some people will ask such questions in good faith, I'll try to answer. Ultimately, Allah knows best. I'm not a scholar, just a flawed and grieving person typing out thoughts on the internet, and probably not presenting them anywhere near eloquently enough to do the complexity of it all justice.

Islam teaches that this life, this Dunya, is not all that there is, and people will then be accountable for their actions in this life when they stand before Allah. Everyone who murdered and raped an innocent person will be held accountable for that in the next life. We are all accountable for our choices and our actions. There are many examples throughout history of people doing things which are ethically and legally wrong and presenting it to themselves and others as being in the name of a religion or cause; saying something was done in a religion or cause's name does not exempt the person from having made a conscious decision to carry out those acts. In Islam, a mentally competent person who has attained adulthood/legal maturity in relation to whatever the action is question may be, is responsible for their own choices and will face the consequences in the next life. Rape and murder, torture and abuse of innocents are not acceptable in Islam, and that doesn't change regardless of how much propaganda or manipulation people might try to deploy. Perpetrators of those acts will, I believe, face very severe punishment.

Why does Allah/God allow such bad things to happen - this is a question asked by people of many faiths when confronted by the darkest elements of humanity, time and again. I'm sure many scholars of Islam, Judaism and Christianity have contemplated it and explained it far better than I ever can, and it's something that I think many people of faith struggle with. There is a tale in Surah Al-Kahf that describes how what even the wisest of humans cannot see as Allah does. We can only see to the horizon, but Allah knows everything that has been, that is and that will be. It is taught that Allah does not allow anything to be lost or taken from someone without writing something better for that person in their future, in this life or the next.

As people in Palestine and Israel bury their dead, wait for their loved ones and seek answers, questions of Why has Allah/Gd allowed this to happen will be being asked by genuinely heartbroken souls, and I hope people can find comfort and answers from people far more knowledgeable than I am. I'm still asking that question myself, at times - when I look at the ruins of buildings and lives and efforts for peace, when I hear news of people in Palestine and Israel about whom I'm worrying, when I comfort grieving friends, when I (as someone who knows what it is to bury a child) see that pain in the eyes of a father or mother... I don't know why this is happening, only Allah/God knows. What I believe is that He has a plan, that He knows everything and nothing can be hidden from Him, and that His justice means innocent people will find comfort in the next life. Those who have died, their hardships in this life are over and they will not suffer any more. It's the rest of us who now have to face our own struggles of continuing in this life without them. To us, it feels like a lifetime before we can be with them again, but to them it will be moments and then they are with us again in a far better place than this one.

GentleScroller · 03/02/2025 20:43

Hamas sought revenge (some would say for good reason) for past Israeli attacks and Israeli occupation. It has also been reported that their popularity was waning because the lives of ordinary citizens hadn’t improved since they gained control of Gaza.

So, Hamas decided to attack Israel on 7th October. They instructed all their fighters to kill Israelis- as many of them and take as many hostages as possible.

Hamas hoped to exploit Israel’s response to increase its popularity, and guess what? It worked in Gaza, the Middle East, and the West.

But was the price worth paying?

Khaled Mashal, one of its political leaders, said, “We know very well the consequences of our operation on October 7 . . . No nation is liberated without sacrifices.” Another Hamas leader (two weeks after the attacks) said, “We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”

Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has used disproportionate force in Gaza, and the high death toll of civilians is horrific. The international community should have intervened much sooner to insist on a ceasefire and for the release of all the hostages without any conditions attached.

It is clear what many of you think about the Israeli government. But can I ask, please stop ignoring the role Hamas has played in all of this? They are capitalising on the Israelis’ response, and you are ignoring their culpability, and I don't understand why.

andIsaid · 03/02/2025 20:47

SummerFeverVenice · 03/02/2025 20:09

I would hope that the coldest, most inhumane comments sneering at the slaughter of 17k children were written by AI and not a living, feeling human being.

I really do hope that.

But, they need to revise this strategy - the callous disregard for humanity on line is definitely upping the anti Israeli sentiment.

andIsaid · 03/02/2025 20:50

OpheliaWasntMad · 03/02/2025 19:22

It’s not controversial at all to blame Israel. I think the intensity and scale of their response was far too extreme .
On the other hand I don’t think it should be controversial to point out that Hamas deliberately engineered this conflict and kept the tensions at unbearable levels by holding onto hostages (including many children)

by holding onto hostages (including many children)

This cannot be serious.

ssd · 03/02/2025 21:02

Fordian · 03/02/2025 19:41

@ssd "*Fordian
Wasn't everyone starving to death?...

Is that meant to be funny???* "

Nope, merely reminding everyone of a particular strand of propaganda we were all expected to swallow, wholesale, and why we don't believe much of what comes out of Gaza.

Just admit you don't really care what comes out of Gaza

Whatsinanamehey · 03/02/2025 21:06

@GentleScroller I haven't ignored Hamas's responsibility in any of this. What really riles me up are the posters who are so blind that they can't see that Israel have deliberately murdered thousands of Palestinians. How can they still say things like oh it's war, bad things happen to minimise the total carnage wrecked on the Palestinians, so that Netanyahu can try and reach his goal of achieving 'total victory'

OpheliaWasntMad · 03/02/2025 21:19

andIsaid · 03/02/2025 20:50

by holding onto hostages (including many children)

This cannot be serious.

What do you mean by this post ?

OpheliaWasntMad · 03/02/2025 21:21

GentleScroller · 03/02/2025 20:43

Hamas sought revenge (some would say for good reason) for past Israeli attacks and Israeli occupation. It has also been reported that their popularity was waning because the lives of ordinary citizens hadn’t improved since they gained control of Gaza.

So, Hamas decided to attack Israel on 7th October. They instructed all their fighters to kill Israelis- as many of them and take as many hostages as possible.

Hamas hoped to exploit Israel’s response to increase its popularity, and guess what? It worked in Gaza, the Middle East, and the West.

But was the price worth paying?

Khaled Mashal, one of its political leaders, said, “We know very well the consequences of our operation on October 7 . . . No nation is liberated without sacrifices.” Another Hamas leader (two weeks after the attacks) said, “We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”

Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has used disproportionate force in Gaza, and the high death toll of civilians is horrific. The international community should have intervened much sooner to insist on a ceasefire and for the release of all the hostages without any conditions attached.

It is clear what many of you think about the Israeli government. But can I ask, please stop ignoring the role Hamas has played in all of this? They are capitalising on the Israelis’ response, and you are ignoring their culpability, and I don't understand why.

A good and fair post

dairydebris · 03/02/2025 21:24

Whatsinanamehey · 03/02/2025 21:06

@GentleScroller I haven't ignored Hamas's responsibility in any of this. What really riles me up are the posters who are so blind that they can't see that Israel have deliberately murdered thousands of Palestinians. How can they still say things like oh it's war, bad things happen to minimise the total carnage wrecked on the Palestinians, so that Netanyahu can try and reach his goal of achieving 'total victory'

Edited

But war is literally the deliberate murder of the opposing party. No one here is minimizing it. But the minute you start a war you can expect death, destruction of property, mistakes, friendly fire incidents, more mistakes, death of medics, death of children, death of journalists, awful injuries, dehumanization of the enemy, etc, the list of different kinds of carnage is endless. War is hell. It's not to minimize it. Its simply saying- this is what happens when war happens. It's the absolute worst of the human race wrought on a grand scale.
And that is what Hamas wanted. Which is why they did what they did. They knew what would happen. They welcomed it.
That's why I blame Hamas.

SummerFeverVenice · 03/02/2025 21:43

The devastation visited on the people of Gaza was well beyond ‘what happens in war.’ Other wars that have crossed the same lines into war crimes and crimes against humanity have been acknowledged for the atrocities they were and are. International law is very clear that each party to the conflict is responsible for their own actions and one party committing war crimes doesn’t excuse the other one committing war crimes.

I also don’t agree that Hamas both knew & wanted the IDF to commit such atrocties. You’re either demonising a ragtag terror group into some sort of evil mastermind that has the ability to see into the future and control multiple more powerful nation states or you are basically calling Israelis, Americans and many Europeans stupider than a bag of rocks to be so easily manipulated by Hamas into mass murder of civilians.

The civilian casualty rates far exceed that of any known post WWII conflict. It isn’t true that it is about the same or lower.

I just hope we will move into phase II of the ceasefire for Gaza, that some sort of peace can also come to the West Bank and E Jerusalem, and that Israel will pull out of their illegal occupations in Lebanon and Syria.

EchoOf · 03/02/2025 21:43

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Bit rich coming from the Putin loving mint press news.