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Conflict in the Middle East
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LetThereBeLove · 08/02/2025 15:11

EasternStandard · 08/02/2025 14:54

The terrorists in the hostage videos, covered and holding weapons. How do they feature in the next stages? What do they do next?

What do you think terrorists do next?

EasternStandard · 08/02/2025 16:08

@LetThereBeLove not sure asking the same question back is useful

I'm wondering what others see happening

LetThereBeLove · 08/02/2025 16:21

EasternStandard · 08/02/2025 16:08

@LetThereBeLove not sure asking the same question back is useful

I'm wondering what others see happening

But seriously what do you see happening other than asking randoms on MN?

EasternStandard · 08/02/2025 16:29

Why not? It's a discussion board isn't it and this is the correct topic.

It seems to me a major barrier to what happens next

The visuals of men with full face coverings and weapons is a stark reminder of why we are here, they are actively a force and would be a major stumbling block to whatever comes next.

Martymcfly24 · 08/02/2025 17:50

Images of men in balaclavas are something I remember vividly on the news every night growing up in Ireland in the 80's and 90's .
I remember the goal of decommissioning by Bertie Ahearne the then Taoiseach and taking "the gun out of politics"
Fortunately the US president at the time was a positive influence.
It would be amazing if this could be the future in the ME.

SharonEllis · 08/02/2025 18:06

Martymcfly24 · 08/02/2025 17:50

Images of men in balaclavas are something I remember vividly on the news every night growing up in Ireland in the 80's and 90's .
I remember the goal of decommissioning by Bertie Ahearne the then Taoiseach and taking "the gun out of politics"
Fortunately the US president at the time was a positive influence.
It would be amazing if this could be the future in the ME.

And they had useful idiots supporting them round the world, but not as many as Hamas seem to have.

Martymcfly24 · 08/02/2025 18:16

Idiots?

Supporting who ?

SharonEllis · 08/02/2025 18:18

Martymcfly24 · 08/02/2025 18:16

Idiots?

Supporting who ?

Hamas.

Martymcfly24 · 08/02/2025 18:23

Sorry I thought you were implying they were idiots that supported the peace process in the north after quoting my post.
Agreed Hamas and their activities should not be supported.

Lalaloveya · 08/02/2025 21:28

dairydebris · 08/02/2025 10:48

I'm becoming increasingly confused by your posts.

I said- Some forced out at gunpoint, some left because they fully expected to return once all the Jews were dead.

And then in your very next post you accused me of erasing what happened to them. I literally said what happened to them. And then I pointed out that Isreali Jews had the same experience all through the ME.

It feels more to me like you can't acknowledge Isrealis have also been victims in this conflict. Also. Not solely.

Your painting of Isrealis as the only villains in this, and the Palestinians as the oppressed, with no agency in how this came to be, no acknowledgment of wrongs on both sides, is exactly the narrative that Hamas uses. And it's a narrative that polarizes and encourages hatred. Please reflect on that.

Show quote history

Yes because the rewriting of history and blaming everything on the other side is really unpleasant to read.

You can act as though you don't do that, but your posts suggest otherwise. A quick read back through the quote thread will show you this.

It's not a mystery why we are where we are for those who acknowledge how we actually got here. It does seem to be a mystery for those who don't acknowledge the historical facts, and they (for the most part, and I'm speaking in general terms here rather than to you in particular) have decided to present the fiction that Palestinians must just want all the Jews to die. As though that were in any way likely or logical.

Maybe you could do some reading on what actually happened to the Palestinians during the several waves of ethnic cleansing they've endured and reflect on how you present those events in your posts.

mollyfolk · 08/02/2025 22:11

@SharonEllis I’d don’t know if I’d call either IRA supporters or loyalist paramilitary supporters “useful idiots”. It’s a simplistic view. The reality of support for terrorism or just supporting their goal is very complicated and often rooted in people’s personal experiences.

my own, usually gentle and loving, grandmother used to cheer and clap her hands in glee when she saw completely innocent people had been killed or injured by terrorist attacks. That was as a result of her own trauma. As far as she was concerned they were all the source of the problem. She had somewhat moved on by the end.

Also people can support the goal of terrorism but not the actions of the terrorists.

stomachamelon · 08/02/2025 22:44

So no acknowledgement of anything you said there @dairydebris? In fact it's been underlined by the response. Some posters cannot see out of the manufactured tunnel they have constructed.

SharonEllis · 08/02/2025 23:55

mollyfolk · 08/02/2025 22:11

@SharonEllis I’d don’t know if I’d call either IRA supporters or loyalist paramilitary supporters “useful idiots”. It’s a simplistic view. The reality of support for terrorism or just supporting their goal is very complicated and often rooted in people’s personal experiences.

my own, usually gentle and loving, grandmother used to cheer and clap her hands in glee when she saw completely innocent people had been killed or injured by terrorist attacks. That was as a result of her own trauma. As far as she was concerned they were all the source of the problem. She had somewhat moved on by the end.

Also people can support the goal of terrorism but not the actions of the terrorists.

I think all I can say is that most people who support terrorists are worse than idiots.

OpheliaWasntMad · 09/02/2025 00:13

I don’t understand how anyone can ever support or condone terrorist acts that cause harm to innocent people.

mollyfolk · 09/02/2025 00:19

Well you have a poor understanding of it so. The reality is much more nuanced. I have more faith in human nature probably because I’ve seen this with my own eyes. People who support terrorism can move to peace. Then the lack of popular support helps extinguish terrorism. Obviously my own experience is the Good Friday agreement, which holds an imperfect peace. But we’ve also seen it in South Africa, Columbia.

mollyfolk · 09/02/2025 00:32

OpheliaWasntMad · 09/02/2025 00:13

I don’t understand how anyone can ever support or condone terrorist acts that cause harm to innocent people.

it happens all the time. They believe their own narrative of what’s happening usually.

There are innocent victims in Gaza and there are innocent victims in Israel and people who are not actually committing violence will justify what has happened to others because of their own beliefs and experiences.

how is that difficult to understand?

OpheliaWasntMad · 09/02/2025 00:39

mollyfolk · 09/02/2025 00:32

it happens all the time. They believe their own narrative of what’s happening usually.

There are innocent victims in Gaza and there are innocent victims in Israel and people who are not actually committing violence will justify what has happened to others because of their own beliefs and experiences.

how is that difficult to understand?

Show quote history

I said - “I don’t understand how anyone can ever support or condone terrorist acts that cause harm to innocent people.”

Are you saying it’s easy to understand why Hamas felt that had to torture, murder , rape and take babies as hostages?

I don’t really understand your point to be honest.

mollyfolk · 09/02/2025 00:50

No that is not easy to understand. But it’s easy to understand why people who didn’t commit the acts of violence supported them. They believed their own narrative around what happened.

is it easy for you to understand why many people in Israel supported the Israeli government when they killed and maimed innocents? Why did they support a policy that literally destroyed Gaza? They aren’t idiots or evil they believed their own narrative around what was happening.

Martymcfly24 · 09/02/2025 07:28

OpheliaWasntMad · 09/02/2025 00:13

I don’t understand how anyone can ever support or condone terrorist acts that cause harm to innocent people.

I don't understand how people can support any acts that cause harm to innocent people whether they are done by terrorists or an elected government.

User0103 · 09/02/2025 07:58

OpheliaWasntMad · 09/02/2025 00:13

I don’t understand how anyone can ever support or condone terrorist acts that cause harm to innocent people.

Have you really such a simplistic view of the world? Such privilege to have no concept of how terrorists are formed: do you think it might be a coincidence that terrorism usually occurs where there is legal oppression of a singled out group?

mids2019 · 09/02/2025 08:12

Doesn't history itself put a huge barrier to meaningful peace?

Israel exists and will continue to exist. If we take that as incontrovertible then we can see how the Palestinian cause can never be satisfied in reality as there is an overwhelming goal in their politics to repopulate land that is now Israel.

I think you can then look at Gaza in that context that you have a people densely populated in a tiny region of land who are incredibly impoverished with a culture and political desire to exact revenge on a state they view as oppresive. How do we find a roadmap to peace from that?

In my opinion you are doomed to repeat history if you view Gaza as a region where hope for a people can flourish as economically they can't . We see the results of the inate poverty through the rise of right wing terrorist groups that espouse genocide and as October 7th demonstrates revel in it.

It seems perverse to use a decade or two rebuilding Gaza for the Gazans with poor quality housing and infrastructure (Dubai it won't be) with the Israelis limiting movement and monitoring imports. We also have the reality it will be a territory supported by regional charity; you are literally building a long term refugee camp with no prospect of it changing from that.

The case for voluntary dispersal of Gazans may be alarming to some but I think we have reached a point where that prospect may in absolute reality maybe one that has to be countenanced.

Trump actually said he wishes the Gazans to be happy and in a sense you could argue that happiness is achieved through having hope for yourself and your family and that may not be in Gaza. For the people of Gaza what does it represent but wasteland currently that needs intensive rebuilding that may or may not be fortchoming . You may feel you have a bond to a land but when that land is a desert how powerful can that bond be?

Liv999 · 09/02/2025 08:22

Lalaloveya · 08/02/2025 21:28

Yes because the rewriting of history and blaming everything on the other side is really unpleasant to read.

You can act as though you don't do that, but your posts suggest otherwise. A quick read back through the quote thread will show you this.

It's not a mystery why we are where we are for those who acknowledge how we actually got here. It does seem to be a mystery for those who don't acknowledge the historical facts, and they (for the most part, and I'm speaking in general terms here rather than to you in particular) have decided to present the fiction that Palestinians must just want all the Jews to die. As though that were in any way likely or logical.

Maybe you could do some reading on what actually happened to the Palestinians during the several waves of ethnic cleansing they've endured and reflect on how you present those events in your posts.

Show quote history

👏👏

EasterIssland · 09/02/2025 08:25

mids2019 · 09/02/2025 08:12

Doesn't history itself put a huge barrier to meaningful peace?

Israel exists and will continue to exist. If we take that as incontrovertible then we can see how the Palestinian cause can never be satisfied in reality as there is an overwhelming goal in their politics to repopulate land that is now Israel.

I think you can then look at Gaza in that context that you have a people densely populated in a tiny region of land who are incredibly impoverished with a culture and political desire to exact revenge on a state they view as oppresive. How do we find a roadmap to peace from that?

In my opinion you are doomed to repeat history if you view Gaza as a region where hope for a people can flourish as economically they can't . We see the results of the inate poverty through the rise of right wing terrorist groups that espouse genocide and as October 7th demonstrates revel in it.

It seems perverse to use a decade or two rebuilding Gaza for the Gazans with poor quality housing and infrastructure (Dubai it won't be) with the Israelis limiting movement and monitoring imports. We also have the reality it will be a territory supported by regional charity; you are literally building a long term refugee camp with no prospect of it changing from that.

The case for voluntary dispersal of Gazans may be alarming to some but I think we have reached a point where that prospect may in absolute reality maybe one that has to be countenanced.

Trump actually said he wishes the Gazans to be happy and in a sense you could argue that happiness is achieved through having hope for yourself and your family and that may not be in Gaza. For the people of Gaza what does it represent but wasteland currently that needs intensive rebuilding that may or may not be fortchoming . You may feel you have a bond to a land but when that land is a desert how powerful can that bond be?

Israel exists and will continue to exist. But Palestine despite it exists it’s ok for it not to continue to exist.

did I understand that right?

SharonEllis · 09/02/2025 08:26

User0103 · 09/02/2025 07:58

Have you really such a simplistic view of the world? Such privilege to have no concept of how terrorists are formed: do you think it might be a coincidence that terrorism usually occurs where there is legal oppression of a singled out group?

Show quote history

Terrorism occurs when people take advantage of a political situation to push their own agenda through violence.There is nothing inevitable about terrorism. People have agency. And you have completely omitted to mention why Israel has had to contain the security threat from the very beginning. Plenty of people have been subjected to oppression and NOT resorted to terrorism. The US civil rights movement was largely non violent in the face of both terrorism and state oppression. Jewish people in Germany did not resort to terrorism. Terrorism then flourishes when people support it, turn a blind eye to it and justify it. Middle eastern terrorism is driven by antisemitism and funded by people who want to destroy Israel.It has also spilled out into security threats against Jewish people round the world. I think its your view thats the simplistic one.

EasternStandard · 09/02/2025 08:29

mollyfolk · 08/02/2025 22:11

@SharonEllis I’d don’t know if I’d call either IRA supporters or loyalist paramilitary supporters “useful idiots”. It’s a simplistic view. The reality of support for terrorism or just supporting their goal is very complicated and often rooted in people’s personal experiences.

my own, usually gentle and loving, grandmother used to cheer and clap her hands in glee when she saw completely innocent people had been killed or injured by terrorist attacks. That was as a result of her own trauma. As far as she was concerned they were all the source of the problem. She had somewhat moved on by the end.

Also people can support the goal of terrorism but not the actions of the terrorists.

This is a sad read re cheering terrorism

But it also shows how ingrained and radicalised people can be and how hard it is to overcome that.