The future for Muslims in the UK is "bleak and dystopian"

[Scirocco]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/nov/17/muslims-face-bleak-and-dystopian-climate-in-uk-says-head-of-thinktank

According to a report by the Runnymede Trust. The crisis in Palestine and Lebanon is considered to be a major contributing factor.

No but it's not just one attacking the other it's awful anyone lives somewhere they don't feel safe but it isn't one sided ...it seems to be the human condition to attack differences and to expect others to do what you do regardless.
In this case it was a public swimming pool we were told in no uncertain terms that we were not to be there and only to attend women only sessions a group of 15 to 20 men surrounding you is intimidating.

Did you report this to the pool and police? What did they do? You shouldn't have to stop going anywhere and spitting on anyone is an assault.

A sensible post, Limesodaagain

Outright lies are obviously unhelpful, but then only an uninformed idiot would believe some of them, and what worries me more is the shutting down of more balanced comments where posters have a point that some would just prefer not to be made

It happens a lot on here, and doesn't seem very helpful either

The PP is talking about taking over large public spaces to pray; were you in a large group when you prayed by the swings?

Thank you for this thread @Scirocco the article expresses so much of what I've been saying to anyone who will listen (and some that don't want to!)

Our politicians should hang their heads in shame, the constant stirring up of divisions between different cultures /races/faiths in the UK to try and win votes is despicable. No wonder the racists have felt so emboldened in the last few years. This year feels even worse, for me the riots were definitely linked to Government obsession about migrants. And as we see on this thread for many people migrant = Muslim!

The increase in Islamaphobia on mumsnet is a reflection of the increase in general society. How depressing.

Must there always be a debate though? Yes open debate and discussion is very important but sometimes there's a complete pile on.
Take this thread as an example. A Muslim woman posts an article on a report. The report states that Muslims are disproportionately victims of assault, more than any other religious group. This follows a summer of riots where we saw Muslims being targeted and attacked.
However, of course there's no space to have any sympathy or concern for Muslims who feel frightened. Immediately, the posts start coming in: Muslims mark their territory by praying, Muslims don't integrate, Muslims don't respect women, what about asylum seekers being accommodated in hotels? A Muslim man didn't shake my hand etc etc. On and in it goes. None of which had anything to do with the article.
Imagine being a Muslim and sharing something concerning for support. Instead, you're bombarded with a relentless list of everything that's wrong with Muslims, examples of every bad Muslim people have come across. It's not just this thread - it's every single thread where Muslims are mentioned. Imagine how emotionally exhausting this is when you're just a normal person trying to live a peaceful life.
Imagine if white British people were treated like this.

Yes - I completely accept that.
I wasn’t responsible for the thread being derailed but I did add to the derailment 😣.

I completely accept your point that it was wrong that the original topic was sidelined . Apologies for contributing to that.
I

It’s horrifying to hear the experiences of Muslims and Jews . What can the rest of us do to ensure things get better? In my workplace ( teacher) we are able to promote interfaith dialogue and the young people I deal with are brilliantly respectful towards each other . To be honest I learn a lot from them . But I know it’s not like that for all young people.

To be honest that probably the fairest and most persuasive telling off I’ve seen on Mumsnet ..

That's good to hear.

Haha! Thank you - and sorry, I wasn't telling you off specifically. I've just seen this over and over again whenever Muslim posters try to engage.

Your argument is illogical. Would it be ok to say to the OP that her worry about going to the supermarket in a certain area and her need to be accompanied, is a non issue as the fear is " just" in her head and "nothing has actually happened"? If not, why is it then ok to dismiss the pp s experience of being spat at, as something only a "few Muslim men did, in the past "? The blunt dismissiveness of " not just Muslim men spit... " didn't help.Your post reads as very understanding of one woman's concerns, whilst turning the other cheek to another woman's suffering. Both are sharing experiences that presumably, have led to fear and intimidation and as such, both deserve sympathy. If you don't see this, then you really need to question your own unconscious bias.

So it’s ok to dismiss what Muslims are going through in this country because the poster is was replying to was spat by men that shared the same religion as the 5% of this posters attackers ? thats the impression the initial comment I replied to gave.

https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2024/oct/04/record-amount-of-anti-muslim-abuse-reported-in-uk-since-7-october-attacks

Tell Mama, a monitoring group that tracks complaints of anti-Muslim hate crimes, said 63% of the hate cases reported to it in the UK were abusive in nature while 27% involved threatening behaviour. The majority of the incidents took place in London, the north-west of England, Yorkshire and the Midlands.

HTH

no need to make it a race to the bottom. Physical assault and verbal attacks should be condemned, whoever the perpetrator. It's your tone I questioned - you didn't pick over the OP s experiences, but felt it acceptable to dismiss the pp s experience. I don't, and still don't know why you find that acceptable. Ultimately, Women need to support each other regardless of our differences.

I haven't read the whole thread. So, apologies if I'm repeating a point someone else has already made. But, it needs reminding that successive UK governments have contributed to the death and displacement of millions of Muslims in the middle east over the last 2 decades or so. Many Muslim migrants who've moved to the UK, have done so as a direct result of those British and allied actions. So, the disturbing anti-immigration rhetoric on this thread and elsewhere, is as unfair & unjust as it's distressing and racist.
I'm not a Muslim. I'm also a woman and a feminist. I personally feel the Andrew Tates of this world are much more of a risk to feminism and the rights and equality of western women than Muslim men. That's not to be naive about the misogyny of Islamic extremists. But, you get extremists of all faiths and none. There are extremist right-wing Christians in America who would be comfortable in Gilead! The issue there would be extremism generally, not ordinary British Muslims.
Some of the posts on this thread are very upsetting. If the same things were said about any other minority, the thread would long have been deleted, due to the saturation of hate speech. But, probably good it's standing, so people can see for themselves how serious the Islamophobia problem is 😔

If this was a thread about womens feeling attacked then I’d fully agree with you. But it’s not. It’s about Islamophobia. The posters initial comment was dismissing other people’s experiences rather than being empathetic towards them. I’m questioning them for it. So yes, my tone might sound dismissing , because I’m questioning the comment from another poster. And yes women need to support each other, but if you’re initially dismissing someone’s experience, then don’t expect my support.

Yes, they are truly under threat. The Runnymede report showed that Muslims are disproportionately victims of assault, more than any other religious group (including Jewish people). I'm not sure why you're asking for a specific place in the country where Muslims are unsafe. These assaults happen everywhere. These assaults are not hypothetical either.

The problem in the article is that it does not address behaviour by a minority of Muslims that people feel is not in the interests of a cohesive society. There are some that want the definition of Islamaphobia extended to prevent criticism of misogyny in the reliogion, de facto blasphemy laws etc.

People have issues with pro Palestine marches because of the degree of and I senitism and in some instances support of terrorist organisations....yet such reasonable criticism seems to be Islamaphobia now.

To be frank, looking from outside of the UK the future of the UK looks bleak if you can't start having honest discussions about immigration without shouting about racism. There's a reason why the flow of migrants goes one way.

It's interesting that this is posted on a section about a foreign conflict? Perhaps Muslims are aggrieved that the UK isn't paying much attention to the perma conflict that is the middle east?

One issue is that for some Muslims loyalty to a pan global religious following is greater than loyalty to the state and yes that does worry some.

I think it is the slow changing of British culture under continuing immigration and demographic changes that does concern a significant proportion of the UK population and I think that debate has to be had. We can't ignore all the reform voters out there currently and we can see the influence of immigration in the US elections.

Other religions such as Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism do not seem to bring out debates like this so we have to question why?

Do you feel the same way about the threads regarding antisemitism in the UK?

are you trying to justify Islamophobia ?

the article is that it does not address behaviour by a minority of Muslims that people feel is not in the interests of a cohesive society

Are you justifying Islamophobia ?