Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

[username7891]

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted but Ireland passed a non binding motion a few days ago that “genocide is being perpetrated before our eyes by Israel in Gaza”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/micheal-martin-ireland-south-africa-gaza-people-b1192666.html

Possibly the most bonkers comment.

So Ireland can't have any opinion on international affairs because of the Magdalene laundries?

That would pretty much rule out every county from having an opinion so. All have groups of people treated badly.

There were also links between the IRA and the Irgun actually.

The way I see it is that are two strains of Palestinian support in Ireland . Both identify with the oppression of Palestinians and the denial of their national identity; in particular, this really resonates with us.

A small strain supports armed resistance against occupiers. You do see this particularly in the North, less so in the Republic. Perhaps that is where you are making that connection.

A much larger strain know what's it's like to have your national identity hijacked by a terrorist organisation. They don't support terrorism. They speak about peace and a two state solution.

Neither strain is rooted in anti semitism. Although you could find a lot to criticise about the first one!

I think the Irish support for Palestinians also has a lot to do with links between Sinn Fein and Palestinian terror groups.

As someone also in ROI, I disagree @ticketstickets. In the 70s and 80s Sinn Fein was only in the margins of politics here. The party experienced widespread condemnation for its connections to the IRA. It was only when it turned its back on armed resistance and became part of the peace process that it became popular among voters. The vast majority of people here do not support terror groups.

I sent you a UK news link which clearly stated the origin of Israel. If you don't understand the difference in my post as to the origin of Ireland.

Why do you need me to reword a reputable UK source? Your take on Irish history is ignorant that is a fact. Your points have been addressed in other posts of others and mine earlier in the thread.

@Liv999 just made another excellent point above. There were no Anglo -Irish, there were invaders.

Yes, I am sure the people who shout things like shame! and Free Palestine! at Jewish people on the streets of Dublin, or the ones who beat up a Jew recently in a pub were motivated solely by love and care for the Palestinian people.

Yes, its true there were links between the IRA and Irgun. But thats a long time ago.

Sometimes I get the sense that Irish people are like, hey, we made peace with our enemies, why can't Israel?

As unreasonable as the parties on both sides of the conflict in the North could be, you can't compare for one iota the extreme ideologies held by too many Palestianians and Muslims in general. (which unfortunately has led to some Israelis holding extreme views as well)

Many Muslim countries don't actually recognise Israel as a country. (sorry for the wikipedia link but here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel#:~:text=However%2C%20Egypt%2C%20Jordan%2C%20and,normalized%20bilateral%20ties%20with%20Israel. )

I for one would be very happy to see a 2 state solution, (in fact, Jordan was set up as a Palestinian state so it would be a 3 state solution) but it would require a huge mindset shift for this to happen. Israel withdrew from Gaza 20 years ago, instread of focussing on building a peaceful society, Hamas took all the money and aid and used it to build tunnels, buy weapons and rockets. They have been constantly aiming rockets at Southern Israel since then, culminating in the massacres on October 7th. Israeli citizens are terrified that a Palestinian state would just keep attacking Israel.

There are no easy answers.

Jews have nowhere to go. We have suffered just way to much persecution to feel safe in almost any country outside Israel. My family lived in Germany and Poland for 1000 years or more, it was a pretty good life until suddenly, it wasn't.

Its painful and actually ridiculous to be told that my grandparents who fled the Nazis and found a safe haven in Palestine in the 1930s were in fact colonisers.

@Marblesbackagain
There were no Anglo -Irish, there were invaders
Are you a 'send 'em all home' kind of person or is there more nuance to your opinion?
Are there any Anglo-Irish now?

Blaming Muslims for the extreme ideologies of some Israelis is ridiculous and frankly, offensive. Especially when some of those Israeli extremists are supporting and carrying out ethnic cleansing and genocide as we speak.

You are one of several posters on this thread who don't see the irony of complaining about people not recognising Israel whilst either arguing for or being completely silent about Israel currently razing Gaza to the ground and stealing land in the West Bank. They are deliberately destroying any chance of a Palestinian state. You also ignore the blockade on Gaza since the mid 00s.

I'm sorry about what your family suffered, truly. I'm glad they found a safe haven. Don't the people currently living in Gaza deserve the same?

Let's be very clear. English people who came to Ireland and took up land and property that the Irish had been evicted from were invaders.

Given the length of time that some of those families have been here, and in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement they are considered to be a permanent fixture. Though most big up their Irishness now..

Addressing the nuances in posts is ridiculous as it is beyond multifaceted. But yes I do want my country all of my country for the Irish. I am a proud nationalist. Isn't everyone ?

If you are English imagine you now speak french. Your children's education is in french and several millions live there diluting your English heritage with french cultural.

That is where we as an Irish nation are. We have to continually deal with the fairy tales inaccuracies spouted. Alongside with the obligatory attitude that Ireland wouldn't be the country it is today without the "contribution" of the UK.

That may give you some tiny sliver of where the nuances are

Hilarious given the Magdalenas were everywhere!

Newsflash @LetThereBeLove we have been trying to clean up that mess for decades. The Irish hold the Catholic church to account and continue to do so. The same as Poland, Canada and many more.

Isn't everyone a proud nationalist? The survival of the nation state requires you to love your country enough to defend it, even if only verbally. It also requires you to have a cohesive national identity. Nationalism and it's friend jingoism are dirty words in many places, but it allows an element of protection by belonging.
Given the length of time that some of those families have been here...most big up their Irishness now.... identifying with your host country is important for social cohesion.
If you are English imagine you now speak french. My children speak internet, it can lead to some communication issues and has certainly overwhelmed the culture I grew up in. Change isn't necessarily bad, the pace of change needs to be managed.

@quantumbutterfly your responses little sense. And your suggestion that internet compares to the loss of a language rather than the evolution of your language onto a different platform clearly shows you do not understand national pride or identity.

Which part are you struggling to understand?

@quantumbutterfly I literally spelt out an example. Casually musing that a communication platform and the same heritage language evolving to our land losing our Gaelige language is shocking insulting and demeaning of our heritage and culture.

Is that how you took it? Some English are very uncomfortable with nationalism and some countries are protective of it and embrace it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/academie-francaise-denounces-rise-of-english-words-in-public-life

https://danishculturecourses.ku.dk/

There are those in the UK that talk of losing their culture and language, they often get shouted down. Should they be shocked, insulted and demeaned?

There's a big difference between losing your language due to influence from other languages, what young person doesn't speak American now, and it being illegal to speak your language in certain situations forcing people to take on English if they wanted to progress. Google the penal laws.

The penal laws 1558-1759?

@quantumbutterfly I'm sure you're smart enough to realise that your child picking up language from the internet is not the same as a country's language going into serious decline as a result of colonialisation over hundreds of years.

@quantumbutterfly do you understand we pretty much lost our own language not it has evolved. Your responses are very concerning about your inability to understand that fact.

The English tore our country asunder. Decimated our education system, our courts and our cultural girl governance.

Your responses are bizarre to put it mildly.

You still haven't responded to my question of you living with french as your language!

https://www.historyextra.com/period/norman/the-normans-had-a-profound-influence-on-britain-why-then-do-we-not-speak-french/

Walter Scott in Ivanhoe says that the words for the animals tended were Anglo-Saxon but the words for the meat on the table were Norman French. Anglo-Saxon was itself a supplanting language as the Celts and Gaels were driven to the margins of the land masses.

I am convinced you aren't reading a thing I posted🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Yes they marked the beginning of the decline that continued under British colonisation. If your language is associated with being poor and ignorant and it is not taught in schools or used in business, politics or legal institutions it goes into decline

Yes languages are continually evolving as we get influences from other languages and so on but that's not what we're talking about is it?

No it's not and they know that. Up until 1870 using a world of Irish in school resulted in corporal punishment.

What about the Norman “invaders” ?
How far do you back ?
It’s completely ridiculous to talk about recent generations of Anglo Irish as “invaders” .