Amsterdam

[EricInk]

I can't believe how unbalanced the media reporting is of the events last night

The maccabi fans were behaving atrociously and inciting conflict the entire day, pulling down flags, chanting 'fuck Palestine' and intimidating Dutch Arabs

Oh for goodness sake isn't it obvious. Go back to the UN borders. Give back all the land that was stolen since then. How will the Palestinians have their own state when with each passing year Israel steals more and more.
There's already talks of settling in Gaza too coupled with talks of 'voluntary emigration' of the Palestinians.

Which borders? 1947, 1967 (when Israel captured the Sinai and then gave it back to Egypt).

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/19/world-court-finds-israel-responsible-apartheid

Yes it is, even critics within Israel has said it unfairly favours Jewish Israelis over Arab Israelis.
You can read more on Israeli apartheid laws here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid

And why do Palestinians suffer the most from that? Finish that thought.

Because Israel outguns them, but also because Israel actively attemps to ensure the safety of its citizens, whereas Hamas deliberately causes the highest possible death tolls it can manage.
That's how that thought finishes.

…but last night was football hooliganism, yeah?

Exactly so they don't pose such a serious existential threat to justify Israel's actions.

I wish people could live in peace .
Mum’s Aunt married a Jewish man and was living in Hamburg- They fled to England by trawler to Hull, but Herman’s family were mostly killed by Gestapo or were last seen in Death Camps ( Red Cross reports)

It is desperately depressing how humans just can’t seem to live peacefully alongside each other.

The ICJ ruled that Israel is an apartheid state. These are the world’s highest legal experts on the matter.

Arab Israelis do not have equal rights or treatment in Israel any more than the Black Americans did during the Jim Crow era despite the statutes performatively saying they had equal rights.

The ICJ, UN, and UNWRA all have one thing in common though so it’s hardly surprising us who want Israel and Jewish people to stop being attacked don’t take them too seriously.

Plus they are really not as important or official as some people seem to believe.

Israel actively attemps to ensure the safety of its citizens
If you’re a Jewish citizen. Not so much for the second class citizens.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/arabs-living-israels-negev-desert-are-sitting-ducks-hamas-rcna120168

@BakedAlaska12 Just to see how hard it is for humans to coexist- Take a look at Mumsnet threads where even families and partners are in conflict with each other.

A wise woman on a bus once said if we can’t get along on a bus ( there was a squabble between two passengers) what hope for World 🌎 peace.

She really had a point.

Plus they are really not as important or official as some people seem to believe.

Maybe within Israel but they certainly are amongst the majority of member states. You can dismiss the icj ruling if you want but many of us accept their ruling that Israel is an apartheid state and will continue to express that view.

Who is this “us” you are referring to?

I also want Israel to be safe and peaceful, which means no attacks, but I do also take the UN, its organisations and court, seriously.

I don’t see how you can consider the two to be mutually exclusionary?

I am Jewish. It’s not good for us if the UN ends up dissolving like the League of Nations did from not being taken seriously or as a world authority able to curb the excesses of any government, even a Jewish one and even a superpower one like the US.

Zero respect for human rights, and the powerful nations acting with complete impunity always seems to end up causing Jewish people greater harm in the long run. We are still the minority that experiences the highest rate of hate crimes.

I fully believe much worse will happen to us and Israel if the UN is not listened to.

Thats fine. Many of us will not accept their ruling while they continue to express extreme views against Israel and Jewish people as a whole and while they hold strong links to terrorists, especially the radical extremists who are the reason for this current conflict, causing not only death and misery amongst Israelis, but also Palestinians whom they claim to support.

Exactly so they don't pose such a serious existential threat to justify Israel's actions.

Wrong, October 7 happened, and they can't risk further similar events.

This is why conversation with lots of pro Israel people is like talking to a wall. It doesn't matter what evidence you show, what highly qualified people and courts say, they will always blindly believe Israel. There is literally no court outside of Israel that could change their minds, a poster even said that a professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University needs to 'learn what genocide is' the other day.

Things have been going from bad to worse for Jewish people everywhere since 7 October 2023
I have no faith at all in the UN nor any bodies associated with it.

In turn I could and can say the same about pro Palestine posters.

You are saying this about the ICJ?!
This is so extreme and groundless, it is deeply disturbing.

At least you accept that you are blinkered I suppose.

Because the UN isn’t being listened to by those with the power to stop the wars.

It is not deeply disturbing. If and when they look at the situation fairly my attitude could change.

They should be desperately working for peace between Israel and Gaza and looking for a sustained way forward. They are not doing that and in turn are not helping people in Gaza. So it’s a loss for everyone no matter what side you sit on.

Oh very clever. Little point to you! 👍

Not all of we Jewish Israelis agree that Hamas is an existential threat.

From the Israeli Haaretz based in Jerusalem, an Opinion by
by B. Michael Nov 05, 2024 12:11 AM- child of Holocaust survivors born in 1947

”The Israeli propaganda conglomerate is a somewhat schizophrenic being: abroad - a total failure, at home - a resounding success.
The failure abroad is unavoidable. Even the PR world champions will not be able to market an occupying country that had just killed over 40,000 people (mostly women and children) as an innocent victim fighting in self-defense.
“Yet, as noted above, within Israel itself the success is huge. In the immediate wake of October 7 began the marketing of the greatest lies told in this cursed war: "We are fighting for our very existence," it was declared with pomp, "Hamas is an existential threat."
“Such pronouncements also employ regular body language: a slight inclination of the head into a merciful position, eyes shining with a hint of moisture and a thin smile of melancholy and grace. The speaker is evidently awash with the pleasure of release and sacredness.
In truth? This is pure bullshit. A contemptible militia with an air force comprising a dozen kites, an armored corps of pickup trucks and a navy of inflatable boats, whose missiles even were met with an almost decisive response - is not quite an existential threat to military power rife with brigades, whose air force does whatever it wishes the world over.
You cannot send 100 "surgical" bombers to drop hundreds of tons of bombs 2,000 kilometers away, and then come back home and declare Hamas to be an existential threat. It doesn't mesh well.”
“Hamas is certainly well-enough equipped to be a cruel, insulting annoyance, but "existential threat"? Come on.
“So why is this silly slogan used again and again? Because orchestrated history is a wonderfully useful tool. It renders criticism impotent, it silences, it encourages a sense of victimhood and panic, and also gives those who use it a sense of importance and joy, by demonstrating concern about the fate of the entire Jewish people.
Absolute bullshit, but as effective as castor oil.”
https://apple.news/AnkHspGyGRIKu2Fsdo2c3pw