How the hell did the Israeli's mange to cause the exploding pagers?

[mids2019]

Just this is really ...how did they do it? Was this the secret service on steroids?

When a person begins with the assumption that they are going to be killed unless they kill, or attack, or fence, in or detain, or torture first - for good reason - they may fall into sometimes behaving in a way that is not unlike the oppressors they fear. It is very difficult to get the balance right.

There is an element in Israeli society that wants Palestinians out, just as much as they say it is the other way round.

Settlers in the West Bank, detentions without fair trials, killing journalists, doctors, too many civilians killed per terrorist, bombing universities is ad infinitum may not ultimately by bringing Israel closer to safety.

The current people like Neranuahu, Ben-Givr and Smotrich are undermining the validity of the arguments which sees Israel as an innocent victim at all times.

@EasternStandard

"Tbf this is unprecendented. This kind of supply chain interception hasn't been done before"

I think that this was done at the point of manufacture rather than say in shipment.

Apollo Gold the Taiwanese manufacturer deny that they had any to do with it and say they licensed the manufacture to BAC Consulting in Hungary. Meanwhile Apollo Gold's offices in Taiwan have been raided by police and Government investigators.

Meanwhile BAC Consulting deny they did the manufacture and were simply an intermediary distributor. Indeed the Hungarian Government has come out saying " "BAC is a trading intermediary, with no manufacturing or operational site in Hungary. It has one manager registered at its declared address, and the referenced devices have never been in Hungary."

Clearly the devices were made somewhere and personally I think both Apollo Gold and BAC could not have been unaware of an operation of this scale and therefore must have had some knowledge/ involvement in it.

@ToBeDetermined I have just seen a recent report out of London that has updated the 24 deaths

"a report out of London" is extremely vague. What is the actual source?

@ToBeDetermined

"And you know that the father was Hezbollah how? "

Because the 5000 affected pagers were only issued to Hezbollah members for the secure communication of terrorist activities. This was confirmed by Hezbollah itself.

So the chances are that if the father had a Hezbollah issued pager that he worked for Hezbollah. Of course he may have also used it for personal reasons as well provided he declared it as a taxable employee benefit.

Hear, hear

@Auvergne63

"Please, take note of whatever you want ( this has a nasty undertone to it, by the way). What are you going to do with your notes? "

Good point, this reference to being noted and taking notes all sounds somewhat ominous and a tad sinister.

@Dulra - is also "noting" maybe it's worth asking her what happens with these "notes".

Well what does Israel think the Palestinians should do?

Interesting that none of the very vocal critics of Israel have even attempted to answer the question posed in @BeretInParis ’s great post.

The last year, and the appalling world wide rise in antisemitism, has shown why it is so important that there is a Jewish homeland and Israel is fighting not just for it’s own survival but also because we have all seen what happened when the Nazis came for Jews and there wasn’t a Jewish homeland to flee to. I’ve been to Yad Vashem in Jerusalem (everyone should go) and was appalled by the extent to which the world closed its borders to Jews fleeing.

Why do so many people seem to have a problem with the existence of a Jewish state that has an army and defends itself from terrorists who wish to destroy it?

With a clear head, looking at the big picture from the outside in, it seems this is not the case. The phrase, ‘can’t see the wood for the trees’ comes to mind. It’s sad and scary to watch.

And we have denial of the validity of the state of Israel on some of these threads, referring to Israel as a coloniser etc. Every 'pro-Israel' poster that I am aware of is in support of a state for Palestinians.

That’s another way of avoiding answering the question.

This isn't an answer

I don’t know what the Palestinian people can or should do now. They are fatally handcuffed to their terrorist leaders who are sacrificing them wholesale.

It's not true though is it? People repeatedly say Israel should abide by international law. People have a problem with Israel because they are committing apartheid, because they are illegally occupying land, they are denying people basic human rights. They aren't just randomly picking on Israel because it is a Jewish state, they just don't tend to like places that commit heinous crimes and ignore International court rulings. I dont think anyone is the biggest fan of Iran or Afghanistan for instance either and they aren't Jewish. South Africa's apartheid wasn't exactly favoured. Why on earth should Israel be an exception?

They’re both equally valid questions though.

They are.
PP asked her question from Israel’s perspective though, and I just stated that I’ve never seen a good response to that particular question.

This is true but the Israelis seem stuck with Netanyahu which is not much better. Both sides need significant change in terms of “leadership”.

Israel protects its people. There is no comparison!

What would you call what Israel are doing illegally in the West Bank? Colonising according to the dictionary - the action of appropriating a place or domain for one's own use. Is that not accurate?

I suspect it was a swap during transit. The Israelis would have learned of the order and bought a pallet of matching pagers. Those pagers would have been modified and shipped to a container port such as Singapore or Hong Kong and swapped with the ones ordered by the terrorists. That method would be the easier than becoming the terrorist's preferred supplier of equipment.

Getting back on topic about Hezbollah and the pagers, let's just acknowledge that this is probably the most successful counter terrorism action in history.

And yes whilst it will not defeat Hezbollah it does mean that many of the several thousand injured Hezbollah terrorists will be unable to commit future terrorist actions because of their injuries meaning that the lives several thousand innocent civilians will have been spared in the future.

And finally whilst it doesn't prevent these Hezbollah terrorists being replaced by future generations of terrorists we do know that due to the nature of the injuries that these future terrorists are unlikely to be the offspring of the current injured terrorists.

I would call the West Bank an illegal occupation as determined by international law and widely accepted. Im talking about those who call the state of Israel from its inception a settler colonial state with no right to that state.

Why do so many people seem to have a problem with the existence of a Jewish state that has an army and defends itself from terrorists who wish to destroy it?

It's the others who are being destroyed that people have huge problems with - the children and the other innocent victims.

It's not ok to say, well this is all Hamas' fault, as Israel's bombs are dropped on families. Yes it is their fault but it's Israel's too then.

It's an impossible situation, I do know that, but to say people object to Israel dealing with terrorists is a disingenuous take on this. That's not the objection.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

does it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68673960.amp