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Conflict in the Middle East

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MissyB1 · 29/08/2024 16:30

Scirocco · 29/08/2024 16:20

Over 40% of respondents to a recent survey did not think the rape of captured Palestinians warranted criminal charges. The Knesset has voted against a two-state solution. Elected politicians advocate for the desecration of Al-Aqsa and the destruction of Palestinian identity and society. Support for occupation appears a mainstream viewpoint. These are not things people should be ok with their governments facilitating.

All of that is both terrifying and depressing.

Zzippit · 29/08/2024 16:32

Dulra · 29/08/2024 16:14

Answer: No.

Your answer: But Israel get funding and arms.

Also this isn't an exam there is no right or wrong answers there's opinions.

I asked a question, not for unsolicited opinions.

Miffylou · 29/08/2024 16:37

Cecilly · 29/08/2024 15:57

@SharonEllis What do I think would happen if Israel stopped being defended? I guess the Israeli government would have to reconcile with their neighbours, give back the land they've taken from the Syrians and the Lebanese, and have a serious stab at making right all the wrongs they've done to the Palestinians. But I'm not lame enough to think that will happen.

Are you really "lame enough", then, to think that Hamas and Hezbollah are just joking when they talk openly and repeatedly of their aim to annihilate Israel completely?
How about the approx 800,000 Jews expelled from Arab countries? The ones whose homes and possessions were confiscated? Or do their wrongs not count? Look up the number of Jews there used to be in Arab countries such as Iraq, Jews whose families had lived there for centuries. Then look up how many live there now, compared to the 20% of Israeli citizens who are Arabs. Then you might understand why allegations of Israeli "apartheid" are so ridiculous.

History is jam-packed with people who have sadly been defeated or uprooted in wars and had to start afresh elsewhere (like all the homeless, stateless refugees after WW2). Only the Palestinians, the vast majority of whom have never lived in what is now Israel, are determined to be perpetual victims and "refugees".

cupcaske123 · 29/08/2024 16:42

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Dulra · 29/08/2024 16:42

Zzippit · 29/08/2024 16:32

I asked a question, not for unsolicited opinions.

You asked a question you got an answer. My answer was reasonable pointing out how countries are supporting Israel to help combat Hamas genocidal rhetoric.

unsolicited
Maybe next time list the posters you want to respond to your questions to prevent any further unsolicited responses 🙄

I will once again ask you to point out where I said it was unfair Israel were receiving funding and arms for defence against Hamas?

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 16:44

cupcaske123 · 29/08/2024 15:28

You've misunderstood what I meant. The ICC is currently investigating Israel for genocide. Of course providing aid would alleviate the suffering of Palestinians, that's what the thread is about. What would alleviate it more is a ceasefire.

Do you think Israel has done enough to mitigate genocidal intent and if not, what do you think they should be doing?

I agree that Palestine needs elections and a new government. That's obviously a long way off because most of Gaza is rubble.

I didn't misunderstand you at all. I was pointing out that several parties in this conflict have genocidal intent, a point which is repeatedly overlooked.

Yes, of course a cessefire is essential. Both sides need to agree to one. Hamas has to release the hostages as the murders of 7 October & taking of the hostages precipitated this particular cycle of violence.

I have already said both sides need to do more.

People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?

Dulra · 29/08/2024 16:45

Scirocco · 29/08/2024 16:20

Over 40% of respondents to a recent survey did not think the rape of captured Palestinians warranted criminal charges. The Knesset has voted against a two-state solution. Elected politicians advocate for the desecration of Al-Aqsa and the destruction of Palestinian identity and society. Support for occupation appears a mainstream viewpoint. These are not things people should be ok with their governments facilitating.

Support for occupation appears a mainstream viewpoint
I think some people are in denial with how mainstream the viewpoint is and who are currently most at risk of genocide

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 16:45

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Which bit is inaccurate?

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 29/08/2024 16:45

A new government in Israel would help

The far-right religious and nationalist settler parties need to be totally scaled back to the point of near silence. This is the group pushing to legalise the weaponised rape of Palestinians. That, right there, is peak ‘malignancy of man’, something my father, who spent 4 years in a concentration camp, talked a lot about.

The far-right religious and nationalist settler parties are destroying Israel from within and silencing the left and centrist voices. Israel, in its current iteration, has lost its morality and its mind. Many Israelis would swiftly agree to this.

There is a current morality vacuum in Israel created by two things: Netanyahu’s disproportionate, genocidal response to the tragic October 7th terrorist attack on Israeli people; young, vibrant people with so much living to do. They must never get lost in the discussion, along with the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank.
The second factor in creating this moral vacuum is Netanyahu’s horrible failure to protect the Israeli people from Hamas. Full stop. October 7 highlighted Israeli intelligence’s complacency, bloated arrogance, and failure to properly function and protect its citizens.

October 7 was an intelligence failure of epic proportions, first and foremost.

To answer the question: Has Israel taken enough action to prevent alleged incitement to genocide?

I will only talk about Israel’s action since that is what the question is about (not Hamas.That’s for another thread).

How can Israel, under its current leadership, even contemplate taking such action when humanity, morality, and dignity no longer even occupy space in the Knesset?

While Israel, under Netanyahu, continues to bleed America dry for weapons and funding, and continues to intentionally block and destroy aid as well as endanger and contribute to the deaths of aid workers in Gaza, allow deadly outbreaks to flourish and spread in Gaza thus finishing off what the bombs and bullets miss, call death corridors ‘safe passages’ to the point that the true language around ‘safe passage’ doesn’t even get an honourable mention anywhere anymore, and while Israel relentlessly, viscously breaks international law left, right, and centre with zero fucks given about the consequences, disgracefully legitimises the Israeli military practice of raping Palestinian war prisoners, and while America (among plenty of other countries) continues to be complicit up to its eyeballs in the crimes against/genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza, the only action Israel knows how take is hostile, subversive action. “Genocide? What genocide? We’re simply engaging in a real estate dispute! It’s a little bit volatile but that’s because G-D’s on our side and these pesky Palestinians just won’t listen!”

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 16:49

Cecilly · 29/08/2024 15:57

@SharonEllis What do I think would happen if Israel stopped being defended? I guess the Israeli government would have to reconcile with their neighbours, give back the land they've taken from the Syrians and the Lebanese, and have a serious stab at making right all the wrongs they've done to the Palestinians. But I'm not lame enough to think that will happen.

No, what would happen is that their neighbours (not necessarily immediate neighbours) would destroy them. What do you think the iron dome is for? You really need to read a history book.

Dulra · 29/08/2024 16:49

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 16:44

I didn't misunderstand you at all. I was pointing out that several parties in this conflict have genocidal intent, a point which is repeatedly overlooked.

Yes, of course a cessefire is essential. Both sides need to agree to one. Hamas has to release the hostages as the murders of 7 October & taking of the hostages precipitated this particular cycle of violence.

I have already said both sides need to do more.

People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?

People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?
You have to be joking? Are you suggesting an election can be held in Gaza now? Have you seen any images of Gaza right now? Israel won't let any Independent observers in to see what's going on but they'll let independent electoral observers in? I don't think you have any idea of the destruction in Gaza to even begin to think this even close to being possible.

Miffylou · 29/08/2024 16:50

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Which bit is a delusion?

cupcaske123 · 29/08/2024 16:52

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 16:44

I didn't misunderstand you at all. I was pointing out that several parties in this conflict have genocidal intent, a point which is repeatedly overlooked.

Yes, of course a cessefire is essential. Both sides need to agree to one. Hamas has to release the hostages as the murders of 7 October & taking of the hostages precipitated this particular cycle of violence.

I have already said both sides need to do more.

People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?

I understand that people vote, but it will take time to rebuild.

Do you think it would help if Israel released the thousands of detainees held indefinitely in Israel? Perhaps that would be conducive in an exchange of hostages.

The thread is about whether Israel is doing enough to mitigate incitement to genocide. You seem to be denying that they are doing anything wrong. Do you think their retaliation has been proportionate?

cupcaske123 · 29/08/2024 16:52

Miffylou · 29/08/2024 16:50

Which bit is a delusion?

All of it.

Miffylou · 29/08/2024 16:55

cupcaske123 · 29/08/2024 16:52

All of it.

If you think everything I wrote is untrue, I suggest you do a lot of reading and research. You clearly know very little about the history of the Middle East.

MissyB1 · 29/08/2024 17:06

And as far as I'm concerned America is up to their bloody necks in this genocide, and the UK are complicit to say the least. Disgusting.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 29/08/2024 17:08

Dulra · 29/08/2024 16:49

People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?
You have to be joking? Are you suggesting an election can be held in Gaza now? Have you seen any images of Gaza right now? Israel won't let any Independent observers in to see what's going on but they'll let independent electoral observers in? I don't think you have any idea of the destruction in Gaza to even begin to think this even close to being possible.

I was thinking the exact same thing. What does that poster think is happening in Gaza that they can all trot off to the polls. Really strange post, it would make you wonder just how informed posters who jump in to defend Israel really are about what it is they are defending.

BelleHathor · 29/08/2024 17:15

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BelleHathor · 29/08/2024 17:17

Scirocco · 29/08/2024 16:20

Over 40% of respondents to a recent survey did not think the rape of captured Palestinians warranted criminal charges. The Knesset has voted against a two-state solution. Elected politicians advocate for the desecration of Al-Aqsa and the destruction of Palestinian identity and society. Support for occupation appears a mainstream viewpoint. These are not things people should be ok with their governments facilitating.

One of the accused is now a TV star, he was invited on by Israeli Channel 14.
https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1828337777131270384

x.com

https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1828337777131270384

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 17:17

cupcaske123 · 29/08/2024 16:52

All of it.

Absolutely extraordinary.

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 17:21

Dulra · 29/08/2024 16:49

People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?
You have to be joking? Are you suggesting an election can be held in Gaza now? Have you seen any images of Gaza right now? Israel won't let any Independent observers in to see what's going on but they'll let independent electoral observers in? I don't think you have any idea of the destruction in Gaza to even begin to think this even close to being possible.

Where did I say an election should be held in gaza right now? But if gaza is 'rubble' then it will take a long time to rebuild then how many years down the line do you think gazans should wait to have a say? And who decides in the meantime? Obviously cant be Hamas as we all agree they are genocidal terrorists, right?

Dulra · 29/08/2024 17:25

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 17:21

Where did I say an election should be held in gaza right now? But if gaza is 'rubble' then it will take a long time to rebuild then how many years down the line do you think gazans should wait to have a say? And who decides in the meantime? Obviously cant be Hamas as we all agree they are genocidal terrorists, right?

Where did I say an election should be held in gaza right now?
Here
Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 17:29

Dulra · 29/08/2024 17:25

Where did I say an election should be held in gaza right now?
Here
Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?

My words were carefully chosen. I said 'said some say in their government' I did not say a western style democratic election. Rubble aside its hard to do that in a country without democratic structures - Hamas arent so keen on democracy are they? Transition to democracy is a process

Dulra · 29/08/2024 17:33

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 17:29

My words were carefully chosen. I said 'said some say in their government' I did not say a western style democratic election. Rubble aside its hard to do that in a country without democratic structures - Hamas arent so keen on democracy are they? Transition to democracy is a process

Your sentence was
People vote, not buildings. Surely Palestinians have some say in their government now?

Apologies if I picked it up wrong maybe reword it because I'm not the only one that assumed you were suggesting an election now.

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 29/08/2024 17:38

SharonEllis · 29/08/2024 17:29

My words were carefully chosen. I said 'said some say in their government' I did not say a western style democratic election. Rubble aside its hard to do that in a country without democratic structures - Hamas arent so keen on democracy are they? Transition to democracy is a process

They haven't got a say in where they sleep at night or whether or not they can feed their children.