Has enough been done to tackle incitement to genocide?

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze5w2wd4x0o

Because their entirely legitimate target, Hamas (we are all agreed on that right?), chooses to fully embed itself militarily into its civilian infrastructure. Human shields are also against international law. Spending all their income on military tunnels but not protecting their population was their choice. If they wanted the 'total destruction' of the people of gaza Israel would have done it. They undoubtedly could have done more to protect civiians. This is a catastrophic situation but the responsibility for the Palestnian people is ultmately their own government which made choices which their people now suffer for. And their statements have been consistently clear about their genocidal intent - as quoted in the article in this thread:
2021, Yahya Sinwar, who has just become the overall leader of Hamas said: “We support the elimination of Israel through jihad and armed struggle, this is our doctrine.”
And, more recently, some Hamas officials have claimed they want to repeat the 7 October attacks, during which about 1,200 people were killed - mostly civilians - and 251 were taken hostage.
In November, a member of Hamas's political bureau, Ghazi Hamad, said: “We must teach Israel a lesson and we will do this again and again.”
Around the same time, Hamas leader abroad, Khaled Mashaal, said that 7 October “opened a highway towards eliminating Israel".

Agree, this is a spectacularly disingenuous comment. Israel are roundly condemned for the security measures they have to take to protect their citizens but apparently the answer is to increase security to a level that would be inconsistent with the thriving democratic multi cultural nation that is Israel. Rather than target the perpetrators.

Of course I know when the elections were held. The last legislative elections were in 2006. That’s why I said "that’s not the fault of the women and children suffering in Gaza now".

The situation with the IRA was completely different. The IRA were not the government of Ireland.

Unfortunately, in modern wars nowadays civilians suffer. In WW2 the civilians in Germany suffered terribly from Allied bombing raids. Were those raids unjustified? When the D-Day landings took place in 1944, to liberate France from the Nazis, about 12,000 completely innocent French civilians died during the battles. Should the landings not have taken place?

If you read my earlier comment, and the one above from @SharonEllis , you will see that unlike you, the Hamas leadership doesn’t regret the deaths of Gazan civilians at all.

@Dulra Wiped out" means "killed", as I’m sure you know really.
Wiping out a population does not mean killing everyone so we disagree on that.

Wiping out literally does mean killing pretty much everyone (look it up). Its not a question of whether you agree ot not - its the meaning of the phrase. Typicaly hyperbole. The death toll in gaza is a tragedy but it is a few percent of the population and this sort of hysteria helps noone.

So Western democratic governments aren't required to put pressure on the governments and regimes that fund and arm Hamas and other terrorist proxies to cease and desist in their genocidal aims? No intervention required as these similarly government funded terrorist organisations exhort and expect the Palestinians (and the Lebanese) to suffer and die in Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi etc's commitment to violence and annihilation instead of compromise?

As you seem to take issue with the "propping up" of the Iron Dome- the defence system that has destroyed thousands of missiles fired upon Israel by Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other so called "resistance" organisations, I'm curious as to what you find so unjust about the prevention of mass loss of life, injuries and destruction for one group of people while condemning the lack of protection for another.

Do you also think the Israelis should have done nothing to prevent further Palestinian suicide attacks like the ones that killed over 750 people and injured over 5,000 in the course of 15 years and that the continuation of this as demanded by Khaleed Mashaal is justified because the Israeli government should actively pursue martyrdom (as defined by the Hamas leaders) for their people (never for their leaders) like Hamas do?

Wiping out is slang I used the phrase and my interpretation of it is wiping out a population so they no longer exist (not that they're all dead). Why are you even arguing over semantics?

Wiping out literally does mean killing pretty much everyone (look it up).
phrasal verb of wipe
1.
eliminate something completely.
"their life savings were wiped out"
2.
informal
exhaust someone.
"this first day back at work has wiped me out

What's your point? My interpretation stands.

Typicaly hyperbole we are long past accusations of hyperbole.

This is a catastrophic situation but the responsibility for the Palestinian people is ultimately their own government
No it's not. The responsibility for the protection of the Palestinian people is the international community to ensure they are protected from a terrorist government and a genocidal neighbour. You can't break international law and claim you've no responsibility to the people you are hurting.

So Western democratic governments aren't required to put pressure on the governments and regimes that fund and arm Hamas and other terrorist proxies to cease and desist in their genocidal aims?
Sorry where did I say they don't?

As you seem to take issue with the "propping up" of the Iron Dome-
Where did I say I have an issue with it. Stop trying to suggest things that aren't there

Do you also think the Israelis should have done nothing to prevent further Palestinian suicide attacks
No I don't think that, just not also break international law with their response

It's disingenuous to pretend that you care about anyone thriving when Israel are 'thriving' off of the back of the suffering they are inflicting on others, the systematic descrimination, the denying other people the right to self determination, the stealing and profiting from other people's resources. When Israel start 'thriving' in a legal manner then that will be a great day for everyone but no country can be described as thriving when they are imposing such suffering and discrimination by breaking international law for decades.

Maybe if the western powers that fund and arm the Israelis would stop and if independent media and journalists were allowed to go into Gaza and document what has happened, maybe that would be enough to stop the incitement of genocide. But I doubt any of that will happen.

No, it's in the article that the genocide is by Israel.

If you know of any Western governments acting to pressure certain regimes to cease funding and arming Hamas, maybe you could've pointed that out and answered my first question, rather than a pointless segue into how unfair it is that Israel receive funding and arms for defence against a proscribed terrorist organisation who frequently reiterate their commitment to Israel and its people's annihilation, no matter what the cost to their own.

What do you think would happen if Israel stopped being defended? Do you think Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas would say, hey you know what, we won't bother doing the thing that has been our central mission for decades?! Assuming you don't want Israelis murdered by them, where would the Israelis go?

I'm not being facetious, all deaths are awful but I don't really understand why this is called a genocide, Surely if this was a genocide, Gaza and its population would be wiped out? Israel have the ability to do it.

What's your solution? How can we stop the genocide?

Ffs you are completely twisting my initial response to you to make an argument where there's none to be had.

You asked
Has enough been done by anyone at all to tackle the incitement to genocide constantly preached by Hamas who've dragged the Palestinians and Israelis into this nightmare?
I responded with what the international community are doing to support Israel and how they are in absolutely no way supporting Hamas.

rather than a pointless segue into how unfair it is that Israel receive funding and arms for defence against a proscribed terrorist organisation who frequently reiterate their commitment to Israel and its people's annihilation, no matter what the cost to their own.
Could you point out where I said it was unfair Israel were receiving funding and arms for defence against Hamas? You are literally making stuff up now

Not every single member of a population has to be dead for it to be a genocide. Look it up.

There is clear official genocidal intent on the part of Hamas & appeared to be widespread support for their genocidal mission on 7 October. The only thing stopping them is that Iran isnt helping them to perpetrate a genocide, and is being relatively restrained. So to keep it that way and prevent genocide the West must support Israel. There is clearly genocidal intent among some extremists in Israel but no evidence for that being widespread in Israel. A new government in Israel would help. Hamas must release the hostages and its allies in the ME rein them in and facilitate a transfer of power to a more reasonable less genocidal government. Its often said on these threads that the Palestinian people are not supporters of Hamas - the international community needs to help them vote for a non-genocidal government. Its obviously essential that aid, food medicine gets in to gaza to relieve the terrible suffering of the Palestinian civilians. Those things would be a good start, no?

You've misunderstood what I meant. The ICC is currently investigating Israel for genocide. Of course providing aid would alleviate the suffering of Palestinians, that's what the thread is about. What would alleviate it more is a ceasefire.

Do you think Israel has done enough to mitigate genocidal intent and if not, what do you think they should be doing?

I agree that Palestine needs elections and a new government. That's obviously a long way off because most of Gaza is rubble.

I asked: Has enough been done by anyone at all to tackle the incitement to genocide constantly preached by Hamas who've dragged the Palestinians and Israelis into this nightmare?

Answer: No.

Your answer: But Israel get funding and arms.

@SharonEllis What do I think would happen if Israel stopped being defended? I guess the Israeli government would have to reconcile with their neighbours, give back the land they've taken from the Syrians and the Lebanese, and have a serious stab at making right all the wrongs they've done to the Palestinians. But I'm not lame enough to think that will happen.

Are there any other countries that are in repeated, serious breach of International law, who use their weapons to allow them to breach International law and who have as you have admitted extremists with genocidal intent against the people who according to the ICJ they have been systematically discriminating against, stealing from and denying their basic human rights to for decades that you think the West should arm or is it just Israel?

Why ask the question if you already have your answer?
My response was to point out that Israel are being supported to defend against Hamas and Hamas are not being funded by any western democratic nation so in other words are doing something to tackle the genocide being preached by Hamas. Without the intervention and support by democratic Western nations the preaching could become doing.

I have no idea why you take such an issue with that response and I ask again could you point out where I said it was unfair Israel were receiving funding and arms for defence against Hamas? You are assuming things that aren't there to paint me in a negative light.

The Palestinians that were ethnically cleansed in 1948 and their property stolen have still not been compensated to date. Lebanon won a case against Israel and were awarded £850 million, still not paid
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30559670
As you said Israel currently occupies the sovereign territory of other countries.
So I fully agree that the likelihood of this occurring is minimal.

Answer: No.

Your answer: But Israel get funding and arms.

Also this isn't an exam there is no right or wrong answers there's opinions.

Over 40% of respondents to a recent survey did not think the rape of captured Palestinians warranted criminal charges. The Knesset has voted against a two-state solution. Elected politicians advocate for the desecration of Al-Aqsa and the destruction of Palestinian identity and society. Support for occupation appears a mainstream viewpoint. These are not things people should be ok with their governments facilitating.