Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Is the current rioting in the UK linked to Gaza?

251 replies

mids2019 · 05/08/2024 09:25

Although the Southport killings were the trigger for rioting in the UK has the focused attention on Gaza including mass marches lead to a new sectarianism in the UK? I am not condoning mindless thuggery in any way but do we now have a situation where mainly Muslim Gaza supporters "squaring off' with EDL/extreme reform types.

How do you balance the right to expression and to assemble with what is becoming a challenging police operarion?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Buddysbunda · 07/08/2024 21:45

Bunnyasmyname · 07/08/2024 21:38

Are you saying groups of people aren't treated differently by the Police because of their backgrounds?
I think they are.
Minimal arrests for the anti-semitic flags, banners and chants at Pro-Palestinian rallies, a disproportionate number of young black men arrested.

You obviously don't agree with that, but don't try and bully people because they dare to have a different opinion to you.

It really isn't fair to call Parking a bully. Why would you want your post that shares disinformation to stand? It isn't about a difference of opinion, what you said is just factually wrong. Surely the past week has taught us all how dangerous spreading disinformation is, can you explain why you want your post to stand? You have clearly backtracked from what you initially claimed.

Bunnyasmyname · 07/08/2024 21:48

Parkingt111 · 07/08/2024 21:41

@Bunnyasmyname I disagree that there was two tier policing taking place during the Birmingham disorder that people keep trying to claim as if Muslims somehow get preferential treatment by the police. Perhaps I'm extra touchy because of all the hate so I apologise for that.
I will ask MN to remove my comment.

It's OK. Thank you for that.
Crossed wires I think.
I was wanting more arrests of the Birmingham Muslims, but not because they are Muslims. I thought I cleared it up when I said in a later post I don't care what colour/religion you are, you break the law, you are arrested. Same as I doubt there were enough arrests after the hotel fires.
Not anti-Muslim, anti-rioting/anti-crime. Simples.

EasterIssland · 07/08/2024 21:51

Bunnyasmyname · 07/08/2024 21:48

It's OK. Thank you for that.
Crossed wires I think.
I was wanting more arrests of the Birmingham Muslims, but not because they are Muslims. I thought I cleared it up when I said in a later post I don't care what colour/religion you are, you break the law, you are arrested. Same as I doubt there were enough arrests after the hotel fires.
Not anti-Muslim, anti-rioting/anti-crime. Simples.

I do think police are still working and identifying - arresting people. From what I read from riots 2011 they were arresting people long time after. Same for some riots that happened in my town against kill the bill. You can’t expect police to arrest everyone (specially with what is happening at the moment) the day after. Also, I really much doubt the 2.5k people that attended the Birmingham protest committed a crime.
as much as i dislike the anti inmigrant protest as long as they just protest and don’t harass / intimidate / hurt / set fire to things they’re welcome to protest , that’s what living in a democracy is, so I’d not expect police to arrest them all/ more.

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:14

Bunnyasmyname · 07/08/2024 19:09

Good luck.
The bloke with the lacerated liver did get an apology from community leaders (including one who was seen brandishing a sword the day before) though.

That's a pretty serious accusation to make. Do you have evidence to support that?

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:22

EasterIssland · 07/08/2024 21:51

I do think police are still working and identifying - arresting people. From what I read from riots 2011 they were arresting people long time after. Same for some riots that happened in my town against kill the bill. You can’t expect police to arrest everyone (specially with what is happening at the moment) the day after. Also, I really much doubt the 2.5k people that attended the Birmingham protest committed a crime.
as much as i dislike the anti inmigrant protest as long as they just protest and don’t harass / intimidate / hurt / set fire to things they’re welcome to protest , that’s what living in a democracy is, so I’d not expect police to arrest them all/ more.

It usually takes a couple of weeks after an end-of-football-season celebration to round up all the people needing arrested, so this'll probably take the Police a while.

ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 22:41

ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 22:24

These articles
report about the attack on the man who sufferered from harm to his liver as a result.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-riots-birmingham-pub-attack-apology-b2592728.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-3246367/UK-riots-Distressed-pub-goers-watch-man-kicked-group-thugs.html


The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk › news
Birmingham pubgoer attacked by masked men 'left with lacerated liver'

1 day ago — The man attacked by a mob of masked men outside a pub in Birmingham has said he was taken to hospital with a torn liver. ... Riots

Excerpt from the DM
But Mr McDonagh said 'I'm not interested' when asked if he had a response for the apology.

Linda Fogarty, who is the assistant manager of the pub, barricaded pubgoers inside after hearing the angry mob was making its way towards the pub.

The 60-year-old said: 'I got everyone in, got the chairs in, got the customers in, staff in, locked the doors ... And then it just escalated from there, they tried to kick the door in, smashed all the windows. It wasn't great.'

She also told Sky News she wants to ban the punter who was attacked after provoking the group with 'offensive language' and inciting violence. She said Muslims have since been supportive and offered to pay for damages.

'After the man came outside and he got attacked, the majority of the people that were on the march put a stop to that, protected him, kept him safe,' she said.
'The ones that were doing the fighting were trying to boot the door in. They cracked the glass in, damaged the handle to the doors.'

She said those on the march were 'more sensible than not', adding: 'The majority of people that were on the march last night stayed behind, supported us, they offered to pay for damages and everything.
'They couldn't apologise enough.'

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 07/08/2024 22:52

Clearly not linked to Gaza. Why would it be!

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:52

@ScrollingLeaves the other poster was saying one of the men who went to apologise was the guy charged with wielding a sword, I thought?

Kriscross · 07/08/2024 22:52

ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 22:24

These articles
report about the attack on the man who sufferered from harm to his liver as a result.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-riots-birmingham-pub-attack-apology-b2592728.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-3246367/UK-riots-Distressed-pub-goers-watch-man-kicked-group-thugs.html


The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk › news
Birmingham pubgoer attacked by masked men 'left with lacerated liver'

1 day ago — The man attacked by a mob of masked men outside a pub in Birmingham has said he was taken to hospital with a torn liver. ... Riots

Thugs come in many shades and religions or not. Hopefully all violent people will be arrested, all equally at fault.

"Members of a Muslim community have apologised after an attack which saw pub patrons mistaken for far-right rioters in Birmingham.
Social media rumours spread that a far-right group was drinking at The Clumsy Swan pub, on Stoney Lane in Yardley, on Monday night.

On the seventh day of disorder on the UK’s streets, huge crowds descended on the area, with footage showing gangs of men in balaclavas, some shouting ‘Free Palestine’ and holding Palestinian flags, after it was suggested the far-right was planning to target the area.
Pub-goer Sean McDonagh, 51, hid under a garden table as he was punched and kicked by a group of men who had gathered to “protect” the Muslim community from the far-right. He said he suffered a “lacerated liver” in the attack which ended when one of the men stood over him.

Speaking to The Telegraph, Mr McDonagh said he was “not interested” in an apology from the Muslim community.

Damage at the Clumsy Swan on Stoney Lane in Yardley (Jacob King/PA Wire)
Asked if he was okay, Mr McDonagh replied: “Yeah, I’m good. I just came out of the pub.. and that was it, walked into them. I didn’t even know there was a march going on. I’ve been back to hospital with a lacerated liver.

“I don’t know what it was all about you know. They called me a few things. ‘I don’t even know what’s going on here,’ that’s all I said.”
But the pub was later visited by a group determined to put things right.
Shaking hands with patrons at the pub, local activist Naveed Sadiq told assembled reporters: “The Clumsy Swan is somewhere very close to my heart because I only live around the corner. And this place has never brought me or my family any discomfort.

“I can only rightly say to the management here that we’re very, very sorry.
“That is not a true reflection of who we are as a community.”

Huge crowds descended on Birmingham with footage showing gangs of men in balaclavas, some holding Palestinian flags (X)
Offering a hand to a patron stuck in the pub during the attack, he added: “To you my friend, I know you were in the pub it must have been horrifying. I’d like to apologise on our behalf. Here is my hand, here is my heart.
“Hopefully we can put it down as a bad experience.”
The Clumsy Swan put out a message on Facebook thanking the local mosque for offering to pay for the damage.
They said: “We are all safe after yesterday’s trouble from mindless thugs using any excuse to go out causing trouble in the community.

“We would like to thank you all for your well-wishes and a big thank you to those at Sheldon Mosque who have reached out to us with apologies from their community and offer to pay for damages.
“Hopefully we will have no more trouble on the streets of Birmingham - we are proud of our multi-cultural city and let’s keep it that way.”

ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 22:55

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:52

@ScrollingLeaves the other poster was saying one of the men who went to apologise was the guy charged with wielding a sword, I thought?

I am not very well up on these stories but I the one with the sword was a different man. The liver of the pub man was hurt by hitting and kicking I think. He was not stabbed.

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:59

@ScrollingLeaves maybe I've misunderstood - the poster said "community leaders (including one who was seen brandishing a sword the day before)" which I read as an allegation that one of the people making the apology was someone who had been seen with a sword (not necessarily having used it against anyone at the pub, but having been seen with it).

EasterIssland · 07/08/2024 23:02

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:56

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jpwnj7g46o

@EasterIssland if this is the same guy, he's been charged with possession of a stick wrapped in cord?

I’m not 100% sure whether it’s the same person (but I can guess from what is in my twitter feed in the last few days) that they’re referring to this?

ps. I think your link and mine are referring to the same person as the surname matches

Is the current rioting in the UK linked to Gaza?
ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 23:03

ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 22:55

I am not very well up on these stories but I the one with the sword was a different man. The liver of the pub man was hurt by hitting and kicking I think. He was not stabbed.

^A man has been charged with possessing an offensive weapon during an incident in Birmingham after TV footage showed someone carrying a sword.*
www.lbc.co.uk/news/man-charged-after-being-caught-on-camera-carrying-sword-birmingham-riots/

I have found no report of him using the sword. The incident was men gathering to protect the Mosque in advance of a riot they thought would be there, (but it was not ) then a group of them
attacking the pub where they thought EDL people were (the people in there were not EDL).

ScrollingLeaves · 07/08/2024 23:06

Scirocco · 07/08/2024 22:59

@ScrollingLeaves maybe I've misunderstood - the poster said "community leaders (including one who was seen brandishing a sword the day before)" which I read as an allegation that one of the people making the apology was someone who had been seen with a sword (not necessarily having used it against anyone at the pub, but having been seen with it).

Sorry, I am probably muddled. I am sure you are right.

Limesodaagain · 08/08/2024 11:38

On a different and more positive note ..
It was FANTASTIC to see the numbers who came out across London as a peaceful counter protest to the Tommy Robinson thugs.
it’s a reminder that most people are NOT racist and are decent and good .

Parkingt111 · 08/08/2024 12:08

Limesodaagain · 08/08/2024 11:38

On a different and more positive note ..
It was FANTASTIC to see the numbers who came out across London as a peaceful counter protest to the Tommy Robinson thugs.
it’s a reminder that most people are NOT racist and are decent and good .

Definitely it was!

anotherlevel · 08/08/2024 12:17

Limesodaagain · 08/08/2024 11:38

On a different and more positive note ..
It was FANTASTIC to see the numbers who came out across London as a peaceful counter protest to the Tommy Robinson thugs.
it’s a reminder that most people are NOT racist and are decent and good .

Absolutely!

vitahelp · 08/08/2024 12:27

I don't think it is for anything. I suspect if you plucked a random rioter out from the crowd they would struggle to explain 'why' they are there and might also struggle to give details on what happened in Southport (how many were injured etc) or details of the accused.

anotherlevel · 08/08/2024 12:44

I think there could be some truth in that some are just following the crowd like sheep really

statsfun · 14/04/2025 05:10

I saw the BBC article today about the riots last year. It says that a police report found no evidence of 2 tier policing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20zrjr5n4ro

That reminded me of this thread, and promoted me to go back to the original article about the violence by Muslim rioters against the pub in Manchester to look for any linked articles of eventual arrests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jll4rk7w5o

I asked at the time:

I haven't heard of any arrests of the knife-wielding. masked thugs who attacked news crews, cars and a pub in Birmingham on Monday night.

There several news articles about individual EDF thugs being found guilty and sent to prison, including mugshot.
I'll watch out for a similar article about the Birmingham perpetrators.

There are no linked articles of arrests. Does anyone know whether there were any?

caringcarer · 15/04/2025 21:42

Parkingt111 · 06/08/2024 21:21

One person has already been arrested in less than 24 hours and investigations taking place into the other culprits. I don't believe this Is due to different people's perceptions on '2 tier policing'

Where were the police when muslims in Middlesbrough were having their homes smashed in? And muslims shops were being vandalised? And young children shouting P*s out at random people walking by.

There's many examples of incidents of disorder taking place in the last couple of days with police not present, they can't be everywhere straight away. There's even been violent behaviour and the police haven't made immediate arrests, i'm assuming they are following procedures on what is the best course of action in such a volatile environment. None of this is me blaming the police, they have such a difficult job right now, risking their safety to keep us safe.

Where were the police when the Pakistan rape gangs were raping the young white girls? Turning a blind eye, that's where. Too busy taking the knee.

statsfun · 15/04/2025 22:05

I just really want to know whether the "One person arrested in less than 24 hours and investigations taking place into the other culprits" actually resulted in jail time, equivalent to similarly violent white rioters.

I haven't seen any articles or mugshots for those rioters, as we saw for the white rioters. And they committed equally serious crimes: trying to batter down a pub door with innocent people barricaded inside, damaging cars, attacking journalists.

It's possible that's just the state manipulating us through the media: ie showing the convictions of the white rioters as a deterrent, and not showing the convictions of the Muslim rioters for 'community cohesion' reasons.

But if so, that's a mistake. Justice has to be seen to be done and seen to be equal 'without fear or favour' - otherwise my belief in 2-tier policing persists. That's far more damaging to community cohesion than showing that some of the violent rioters were Muslims who were then convicted according to their crimes.

And if similar violent behaviour didn’t result in similar convictions - simply due to race and religion and misplaced appeasement - then the problem is far more serious.

So: does anyone know what happened with those rioters?