Hamas leader killed

[Billyballyboo]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jul/31/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-killed-iran-israel-gaza-war

Any thoughts on this?

Parking Here's a Tweet thread by an actual journalist in the region, analysing the assassination of Haniyeh, his role as a moderating voice in negotiations and how this may have consolidated Sinwar control of Gaza (his brother is a possible successor for Haniyeh).
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1818581046595584096?refresh=1722440925

These aren’t MY freedom fighters or resistance fighters. I’m a fucking Irish Jewish keyboard warrior in West London, ffs. What the fuck do I know, really? But I care. I care a great fucking deal about innocent people dying. And what I’m saying is, there WILL be those who see ‘terrorists’ as ‘freedom fighters’ and vice versa. It’s just how it goes. I’m not wrong in saying that.
You’re trying to define terrorist in a very simplistic way. I’m merely saying if you’re a Palestinian, the Houthis will be good guys, resistance fighters. I’m not Palestinian. I’m not dependent on the Houthis to defend my people. I’m not going to have a beer with Hamas members any time soon. Technically I have zero skin in the game. But as a human being, sharing this experience with you and everyone else on the planet, I’d like to see this shit stopped. It’s a complex wish. It feels impossible.
But I’ll hang onto it for dear life. Because I sincerely wish, with all my heart and all my spirit, for peace for the Palestinian people and above all, peace in the region. I stand by that and peace is not illegal to want. So don’t fucking zap me.

Is it that you believe only the third factor I suggested here has led to the timing of this action, or that it is a bigger factor than the political events that have happened in Palestine and Iran within the last week?

You don’t think it significant that this happened while he was a guest of Iran, to celebrate their new President?

‘I don’t think this is about justice, holding leaders accountable for October 7th, or finding a way to peace. All things I support.

I think this is about control and destabilising Palestine, because why now?

• when Palestinian factions have very recently agreed to try and put differences aside and work together.

• when Iran have just appointed a seemingly more moderate President.

• when the tables are shifting to a more moderate position in countries that have offered Israel unconditional support.

As most people will know, Netanyahu has form for putting others at risk in order to destabilise Palestine, except this time he isn’t funding Hamas, he is trying to provoke fighting within the Middle East and a response that can further justify his war.’

Because I sincerely wish, with all my heart and all my spirit, for peace for the Palestinian people and above all, peace in the region.

@SerenityNowInsanityLater hear hear 👏

“I see the other cliché of oppression breeding more terrorism which is another thing that's definitely not axiomatic”

Amos Oz wrote about this. But what would he know, having grown up in the region? Maybe you could tell him a thing or two. He’s dead. Don’t let that stop you though.

Hmm, I would give you good advice, but I doubt you'd take it so I won't bother. 🤷‍♂️

I know a great deal about terrorist groups, how they think, operate, spread their ideology, how sneaking regarders sound and so on. I'm not oversimplifying anything.

But if you attempt to reduce it down to mere opinion, especially with zero reference to the law, then don't be surprised at the consequences of your own words.

Believe whatever you want, but don't expect that opinion to be viewed as respectable or as having equal validity to other views. It isn't.

Cheerio....

It’s like growing anything isn’t it, what grows well somewhere depends on the conditions. To pretend that oppression has no impact, is simply idiotic.

There has to be some reason why Israel think they need to keep mowing the lawn.

Of course, Muhammad Shehada. Bit more context to this individual. 👇

No, that wasn't the point made. The actual point is that is not axiomatic, but terrorist organisations & terror armies frequently like to use it to justify their views, method of operation, ideology, etc.

In the end, method becomes more sacred than their cause as a wise man once said. Emotional Appeals is a very useful tool which is why terrorists, their fellow travellers and their sneaking regarders all invoke some variation of "oppression breeds terrorism".

“In the end, method becomes more sacred than their cause as a wise man once said”

So how they carry out acts of terror becomes more important than the cause they’re fighting for? Elaborate. Not being sarcastic actually. I want more food from this thought. Because… you could be writing about the IDF. You could be writing about the Black and Tans. You could attribute this mentality to terrorists and armies alike. They can become one and the same.

One less terrorist can only be a good thing.

Although I fear this means a much-needed ceasefire is getting even further out of reach.

I thought it was amusing that the BBC this morning referred to the guy who killed Jo Cox as a terrorist, but not Haniyeh, which meant that when they said he was a pragmatist and moderate (which even the guy from the FO had to correct) they sounded ridiculous, as if they were talking about a lib dem MP. If they'd said he was a member of a terrorist group they could have followed it up by saying he was considered a moderate within it.

I think he was killed in Iran because he mainly hangs out in Turkey and Qatar, Turkey is a member of Nato and Qatar is involved in negotiations and is also a US ally. So him being in Iran was a happy opportunity for Israel. His card was always going to be marked after 7th October, Israel was clear about that from the off.

The why now. In regards to Hamas if Haniyeh is seen as the one to lead the Palestinian people Israel could have faced the problem of basically a PLO that is controlled by Hamas, so now not only are they in Gaza they are also everywhere the PA is as well. I’m sure that Abbas is very relieved that he’s dead frankly, Fatah and Hamas have an extremely fractious relationship. Thats a very good reason to get rid of him from the Israeli perspective. I don’t think thats specifically about destabilising Palestinians and more about security for Israelis. If it messes them up for a bit thats going to be a bonus but the Israelis really can’t afford to have Hamas spreading outside of Gaza. the last time the PLO worked with Hamas, Hamas started killing their people. They are truly awful. Do I think Netanyahu cars about Palestinians or a Palestinian state not really. Do I think the security apparatus in Israel is keenly hurting from failing to prevent 7th October yes and I believe they will be focussed on doing what they think they need to do to make Israel safe.

I think Netanyahu wants an out at some point and he’s not leaving without some claim to victory. He can’t get every single last member of Hamas, thats impossible. But he’s managed to get rid of a number of significant people. I think he’s be happy if they got all the hostages (their bodies) but I don’t think they are a primary concern for him. I think that whatever happens with the Palestinians Israel will continue to face threats from Palestinian militias, Hezbollah and from Iran. Nothing changes that. But Israel needs to think about an exit plan and pressure is building.

Iran is a non starter for me, there is no regime change, there was no change of direction on the horizon. it’s same old same old with them. A puppet president is not going to be moderating anything.

I think it’s more complicated that Netanyahu pulling strings. I think that the middle east is a lot more complicated than most of us understand tbh. The actors here, none of them are passive or stupid. The biggest destabilising force in the middle east is Iran not Israel.

I do sometimes sit and wonder at what a powerhouse the middle east could be if they stopped the bullshit and got on with developing their societies and institutions towards democratic norms secularism and peace.

So you are suggesting that oppression causes real injustice, which makes it easier for terrorists organisations to recruit people, by magnifying, and exploiting this oppression for their own ends, which is fine.

But, can you also recognise that oppression causes real grievances, which leads to a risk in terrorism, without a middle man?

And can I please check that you are actually against the oppression of groups of people?

Why not reduce the risk by treating people with the dignity and respect they deserve in the first place, and not just because it reduces the risk of terrorism, because it is the decent and morally right thing to do.

Statement attributable to the Spokesperson for the Secretary-General – on the Situation in the Middle East
Stéphane Dujarric, Spokesman for the Secretary-General

The Secretary-General believes that the attacks we have seen in South Beirut and Teheran represent a dangerous escalation at a moment in which all efforts should instead be leading to a ceasefire in Gaza, the release of all Israeli hostages, a massive increase of humanitarian aid for Palestinians in Gaza and a return to calm in Lebanon and across the Blue Line.
Rather than that, what we are seeing are efforts to undermine these goals.

The Secretary-General has consistently called for maximum restraint by all. It is increasingly clear, however, that restraint alone is insufficient at this extremely sensitive time. The Secretary-General urges all to vigorously work towards regional de-escalation in the interest of long-term peace and stability for all.
The international community must work together to urgently prevent any actions that could push the entire Middle East over the edge, with a devastating impact on civilians. The way to do so is by advancing comprehensive diplomatic action for regional de-escalation.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/statement/2024-07-31/statement-attributable-the-spokesperson-for-the-secretary-general-%E2%80%93-the-situation-the-middle-east

This isn't an official statement but it's looking pretty grim. I don't understand why could they not wait until ceasefire/hostage negotiations were complete before undertaking a move which was highly likely to lead to this?

Negotiations for a ceasefire and hostage deal may now be suspended for weeks or even months following the successive assassinations of Hezbollah’s top military commander Fuad Shukr and Hamas politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh, Channel 13 reports.

@Parkingt111 I think you can guess the answer to that as much as I can. Because Netanyahu doesn’t want a ceasefire.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/31/world/middleeast/iran-orders-attack-israel.html
Iran’s Leader Orders Attack on Israel for Haniyeh Killing, Officials Say

"Hamas's deplorable actions does not exonerate Israel for theirs"

Yes it does. When we fought the Germans we killed a lot of them and cheered when we did because of what they were and what they were trying to do.

No one said "awww let's not be mean to the poor Nazis"

And should I ever be held hostage by an enemy nation I expect my country to do whatever it takes to get me back. I'd hate to be in a cell somewhere and find that the people back home were saying I ought not to be rescued because it might upset my captors.

@DownNative You've lots of quasi legal/academic arguments to show those of us lesser mortals who just happen to have seen starvation and genocide in real life, the ignorant souls from the world of medicine and science. Your threads don’t conceal your hawkish attitude and alignment with Israel and the British establishment. I think your arguments are good because of your debating skills and depth of knowledge, but this doesn’t give you a monopoly on the truth.

You posted a picture of Gerry Adams, he of the armolite and ballot box. You said on another thread that the GFA and resulting peace was the result of the British military’s effective defeat of the PIRA as you call them. This was clearly not the case- Sinn Féin made the move further into the political arena and are currently most successful party in NI.
I’m not a “sneaking begrudger” or a Sinn Féin supporter, but I think that the killing of Haniyeh could be a disaster for the hostages. Politics is about dialogue. Freeing hostages needs dialogue. Taking out a terrorist who is political leader with clout when you’re trying to do a hostage deal is a mistake, even if it garners support political support for Netanyahu.Negotiations with someone who isn’t a terrorist aren’t going to get any living hostages back.
Taking out these older guys does not weaken Hamas-it just creates a space for younger less skilled ones to move into their places. Mossad are very successful- they regularly take out key figures in Hamas and the organisation is set up to deal with this problem. Hamas will be set back for a few critical weeks ( from the point of view of the hostages and those trying to avert a further humanitarian disaster ) but after that business as usual, probably with a younger less skilled and more extreme replacement . Well done Mr Netanyahu, your war objective of staying out of prison yourself is going well.

I wouldn’t even go so far as to say that particular poster has a depth of knowledge beyond what some other posters have - just digs out a lot of information from google. A military or political analyst isn’t going to be spending their time extrapolating their thoughts on a website for mums. We’re all laymans on here and people posts links or share facts that support their bias or opinion.

I agree with the rest of your post!

Every single German was a Nazi? Do you think every Palestinian is Hamas? I include babies/ children in both questions.
I have just asked my mother, who grew up under German occupation, if she thinks that every German was a Nazi. Her answer " Of course not. Why would I think that?" Good question, indeed.

https://x.com/MayadeenEnglish/status/1818524272068862107
he was killed using missile strike

Auvergne - no-one suggests that every German was a Nazi, but if the British hadn't bombed Germany because of the danger of injuring civilians, then the whole of Europe would have ended up under Nazi rules. The non-Nazis ended up suffering for the manaical extremism and pathological violence of their leaders

So the @LastTrainEast feels the Israeli response is proportionate and the tens of thousands of innocent people killed, many of which are children, are an unfortunate by product of their proportionate campaign in Gaza?