Israelis held hostage in Gaza - part 4

[StillHELDhostage4]

New thread.

Went to post on thread 3 and it's full.

Sad 4th thread and hostages still held by Hamas and others.

This about Carmel Gat is in CNN news. It is a special thing to know about her. How remarkable she sounds.

After 50 days without a sign of life, Gat’s family received testimony from returned hostages, who described her as their guardian angel. To help them endure captivity, she taught them meditation and yoga.

www.cnn.com/2024/09/01/middleeast/israel-gaza-wwk-hostages-killed-intl-hnk/index.html

I'm so sorry to hear the sad news may they rest in peace

Some hopeful news from Israel is that today there have been thousands of Israelis protesting against Netanyahu's handling of the crisis so far and there is a call (widely supported) for a general strike tomorrow. If enough people demonstrate that they are sick and tired of him and his decision making, then maybe he will be forced to negotiate and fewer hostages will die.

It's on the live feed just now on the BBC website
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c75nekwkd4yt

Such sad news, may their memories be a blessing.

Spot on @SababaToo. Unfortunately. I don't like Netanyahu but negotiating with a terrorist organisation that doesn't have an interest in a sustainable peace isn't easy.

Tragic news but so horribly predictable that the longer they go without a ceasefire, the more innocent people die. The hostages were/are in the most extreme danger of all the innocents in this conflict as they’re being used as human shields as they are moved around with Hamas guards to different places being used by Hamas.

I do think the criticism of Nethanyu agreeing to Biden’s plan and then changing his mind once Hamas agreed to it in May is fully warranted. Think of all the lives Israeli, Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian that would not have been cut short if Nethanyu had given the Biden plan a chance. The West Bank would not be exploding like it is today either. I hope the Israeli protesters get listened to.

The only glimmer of hope for the remaining hostages is that it is in the best interests of Hamas to keep them alive. Whilst living they are a bargaining chip. Hamas has little or no leverage apart from those hostages.

@SababaToo agreed. It’s a shame many don’t understand the bigger picture here and blindly echo calls for a ceasefire with no appreciation for how this might be realistically achieved.

I'm not sure that it's because people "don't understand the bigger picture" that they have a viewpoint that differs from yours. Perhaps they have just as great an understanding as you, but see negotiation as a preferable alternative to violence.

A ceasefire is simply that. It's in the word.
Israel stop shelling, firing, bombing etc and Hamas stop firing rockets.
And before you say " You can't trust Hamas, they won't keep to their side of the bargain" ... How can you know that ?
For all Hamas are, which includes brutal and ideologically driven, they are not stupid. They know what is in their best interests.

So, there's no good options on the table as a result of Hamas' plan

Sorry, but isn’t the plan currently being negotiated again with Israel actually Biden’s plan from May?

The earlier Hamas plans have all be roundly rejected for good reason.

Why is the Biden plan not a good option for Israel? Biden has been Israel’s biggest supporter and defender on the international stage.

As opposed to blindly calling for what else?
Unless you want unending war, you are going to have a ceasefire. The sooner you have a ceasefire, the fewer innocents and soldiers die.

I personally think the negotiations should be run like voting for the new Pope.

Lock the leaders into a room with no outside contact and not let them out until they come to an agreement. All they get is cafeteria food on trays, an army cot to sleep on, bathrooms to use, and a set of clean clothes once a day. Locked in together no contact with the outside world until they agree.

But its never up to just them. They have to talk to other people. And they would never agree to go into the room on those terms anyway. The point about 'blindly' calling for a ceasefire is that a ceasefire has to be part of a process. Just stop firing sounds nice but unless there is a process someone will just start again. Its terribly naive to think Israel can just accept Hamas will honour a ceasefire when they broke the last one so horrifically.

@Itoosurvive what you say is partially fair. Some will have a different view with sound reasoning. But many do not have sound reasoning because calling for a ceasefire without understanding the bigger picture is naive, unfortunately.

To those saying Hamas knows what it’s doing and will stop when it gets what it wants. What exactly does it want that Israel can actually agree to? Israel will not agree to its own total destruction. So it’s an impasse. A tragic impasse for all innocents.

So, there's no good options on the table as a result of Hamas' plan

Taking a line in my post put of context there. I'm clearly referring to Hamas' 7th October 2023 plan setting the parameters for any and all negotiations afterwards.

No it isn’t clear. You were talking in present tense, not past tense. Oct 7th 2023 was almost a year ago and there have been many plans proposed by both sides and various mediators since then.

Nothing from October 7th, 2023, is currently ‘on the table’ afaik.

Thinking some more, I don’t think Hamas even issued ceasefire plan on Oct 7th?
They were too busy rampaging around, massacring civilians and taking hostages on the 7th?

Your posts generate more questions than they do answers.

"calling for a ceasefire without understanding the bigger picture is naive,"
@BeretInParis
That's the second time you've referred to "the bigger picture" as if it's something you see, yet the rest of us are blind to.
The so called "smaller picture" involves the deaths of Palestinians, the deaths of Israelis and the brutalisation of people on both sides.
How about dealing with the "smaller picture" and negotiating a ceasefire now and work our way through to your "bigger picture" once the shells and bullets and rockets have stopped ?

So there’s more time to re-arm?

That’s why I said the leaders, as in who it is up to. Not negotiators that keep getting overruled.

Both sides blame the other for the November ceasefire ending, and imho they both have a point.

Everyone has done the entire process for a ceasefire many times over the past year. It’s not like no one has been doing it since October. The problem isn’t that some process hasn’t started and isn’t happening, it’s the fact it keeps failing.

A full withdrawal including from Philadelphi Corridor represents a strategic defeat for Israel and undoes all they achieved against Hamas.

Except that the Philadelphi corridor was agreed as a demilitarised zone with Egypt in 1979 and then reaffirmed in 2004. It’s not a strategic achievement against Hamas to make it a military zone as they have done. It’s a violation of the Philadelphi Accord between Israel and Egypt.

The leaders cant operate in isolation! Particularly Netanyahu. He's a Prime Minister, not a dictator.

That makes no sense. You don’t need to have a room full of dictators.

A PM works with a cabinet & political party.