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Conflict in the Middle East

Tel Aviv under attack from at least eight rockets fired from Rafah in Gaza

342 replies

keenforhelp · 27/05/2024 20:54

Hamas's military wing claimed responsibility for the attack on Sunday, according to Press Association.

What happened after by Israeli airstrikes was truly terrible - a real tragedy.

But why are Hamas still firing rockets deliberately at a residential city with no combatants.
As long as Hamas are in power rockets will never stop. Plus all the Aid Britain and America are giving just goes straight to Hamas. They started the war haven’t released the hostages and have no intention of surrendering.
The UN orders Israel to stop fighting.
But Hamas are free to continue their attacks.
Makes sense to someone I guess...........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13461325/Tel-Aviv-attack-eight-rockets-fired-Rafah-Gaza.html

Tel Aviv under attack from rockets fired from Rafah in Gaza

Tel Aviv has come under attack with at least eight rockets fired towards central Israel on Sunday originating from Gaza 's far-southern city of Rafah, the Israeli military has confirmed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13461325/Tel-Aviv-attack-eight-rockets-fired-Rafah-Gaza.html

OP posts:
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7
EllaDisenchanted · 30/05/2024 06:01

This reply has been deleted

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Ex Manchester, not ex Jewish. There’s obviously no such thing as ex Jewish. I made Aliyah from Manchester, so I don’t live there anymore. I’m still as ultra orthodox as ever. I still have family and friends living there and close ties to the community. You are welcome to not believe me that I am Jewish, and of course, I can’t prove it to you without outing myself, but if you advance search, you will find I have been posting for years, on lots of Jewish AMAs, and other Jewish related topics, and don’t name change 🤷‍♀️

You made a claim about rabbis from my hometown, saying something that is very unlikely (at least from an orthodox perspective), so I asked for sources. If you’re going to make such a controversial claim, then it’s not unreasonable to expect to be asked for your sources, and seems unnecessary to have responded to my request that you don’t believe I am Jewish, and that I should Google it, or look it up on YouTube. It felt like a personal attack, and I’m not sure what I said to warrant that. I didn’t report your post, but clearly others did.

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 06:51

DownNative · 29/05/2024 22:29

Stick to how law defines the terms hostage, prisoner and prisoner-of-war status.

"Rule 128

1. Civilian internees must be released as soon as the reasons that necessitated internment no longer exist, but at the latest as soon as possible after the close of active hostilities. (IAC)

2. Persons deprived of their liberty in relation to a non-international armed conflict must be released as soon as the reasons for the deprivation of their liberty cease to exist. (NIAC)

The persons referred to may continue to be deprived of their liberty if penal proceedings are pending against them or if they are serving a sentence lawfully imposed."

What you personally think something sounds like isn't really relevant. Of course, the situations of circumstances that gives rise to hostage taking, prisoner and prisoner-of-war isn't normal!

That's why it's defined carefully and specifically in IHL aka LOAC.

The situation with Palestinian prisoners is not the same as that you'll be used to in Europe, for example. Hostage taking definitely isn't!

Detention can go on as described above.

IAC = International Armed Conflict.

NIAC = Non-international Armed Conflict.

As to which of these the war in Gaza falls under, a case study in ICRC on the Gaza Operation some years ago asserts the following:

"At the end of the day, classification of the armed conflict between Hamas and Israel as international or non-international in the current context is largely of theoretical concern, as many similar norms and principles govern both types of conflicts."

See Rule 128 again.

It's also permitted to arrest an individual suspected of a crime hours later, including in the middle of the night. Indeed, peacetime police forces can do this too.

I repeat once more, a hostage is not equivalent to a prisoner who's been deprived of their liberty. These two categories are also not equivalent to the prisoner-of-war status.

That's the actual point and you can't really deflect away from that.

Kidnapping children and trying them in a military closed court is not normal. Just because that’s the law in Israel it does not make it right.

Sbzm1 · 30/05/2024 07:37

@EllaDisenchanted i didn’t think you did report me at all tbh. And I thought you’d written an ex- Jew from Manchester. Fair enough, that was my mistake. My conversation with the other poster to say that I am antisemite when suggesting a title of what to write on YouTube for the evidence you asked for of those rabbis was what bothered me. And then trying her best to make out I just randomly said it out of the blue. When people throw the word antisemitism around for this is something that I believe hurts the cause and can ultimately lead to desensitisation. My entire posts on this thread were to not throw the word around lightly.
Another thing I do not understand is why people on this thread expected me to advance search posters and why I’m expected to know posters have posted before etc.

EllaDisenchanted · 30/05/2024 07:59

Sbzm1 · 30/05/2024 07:37

@EllaDisenchanted i didn’t think you did report me at all tbh. And I thought you’d written an ex- Jew from Manchester. Fair enough, that was my mistake. My conversation with the other poster to say that I am antisemite when suggesting a title of what to write on YouTube for the evidence you asked for of those rabbis was what bothered me. And then trying her best to make out I just randomly said it out of the blue. When people throw the word antisemitism around for this is something that I believe hurts the cause and can ultimately lead to desensitisation. My entire posts on this thread were to not throw the word around lightly.
Another thing I do not understand is why people on this thread expected me to advance search posters and why I’m expected to know posters have posted before etc.

I don’t expect you to advance search me in general, I merely meant I’ve been posting for years, so there is historical proof of my claim - although of course we are all anonymous on the internet, so I could have been catfishing for years for all anyone knows 🙈 (I feel like I’m in an episode of the circle now 😅).

And I thought you’d written an ex- Jew from Manchester. Fair enough, that was my mistake. Thank you ❤️

anyway this is a derailment. I’m glad we’ve cleared this up!

DownNative · 30/05/2024 08:00

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 06:51

Kidnapping children and trying them in a military closed court is not normal. Just because that’s the law in Israel it does not make it right.

Rule 128 is International Humanitarian Law aka Law Of Armed Conflict. 🤦‍♂️

Not Israeli domestic law.

IHL is there precisely because conflict and the laws regulating it are due to abnormal circumstances.

Looking at any conflict from a peacetime perspective is inappropriate as you can't understand them via that particular lens.

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 08:08

Invent · 29/05/2024 22:41

Was the war primarily instigated by Hamas? yes

Debateable. It wasn't created in a peaceful void.

Where would you rather be living right now Isreal or Gaza.

No it was instigated in 1947 when Israel started throwing people off their own land and repopulating.

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 08:10

DownNative · 30/05/2024 08:00

Rule 128 is International Humanitarian Law aka Law Of Armed Conflict. 🤦‍♂️

Not Israeli domestic law.

IHL is there precisely because conflict and the laws regulating it are due to abnormal circumstances.

Looking at any conflict from a peacetime perspective is inappropriate as you can't understand them via that particular lens.

You are justifying kidnapping and jailing CHILDREN. Can you hear yourself? And presumably (because this is mumsnet) a mother too.

Dulra · 30/05/2024 08:20

DownNative · 30/05/2024 08:00

Rule 128 is International Humanitarian Law aka Law Of Armed Conflict. 🤦‍♂️

Not Israeli domestic law.

IHL is there precisely because conflict and the laws regulating it are due to abnormal circumstances.

Looking at any conflict from a peacetime perspective is inappropriate as you can't understand them via that particular lens.

Is it a conflict in the West Bank though? These are civilians living there. These children imprisoned have then been in a conflict zone since birth. I fail to understand how those laws can apply indefinitely in the West Bank. It is just an excuse to treat Palestinians as they please.

newmomaboutthreads · 30/05/2024 08:21

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
One man's government leader is another man's genocidal dictator.

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 10:09

newmomaboutthreads · 30/05/2024 08:21

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
One man's government leader is another man's genocidal dictator.

Nelson Mandela.

mollyfolk · 30/05/2024 12:18

Dulra · 30/05/2024 08:20

Is it a conflict in the West Bank though? These are civilians living there. These children imprisoned have then been in a conflict zone since birth. I fail to understand how those laws can apply indefinitely in the West Bank. It is just an excuse to treat Palestinians as they please.

International law allows for this “administrative detention “ as a temporary, exceptional measure. Israel’s actions far exceed what the law allows - 50 years into the occupation of the West Bank.

also Israeli settlers in the West Bank are tried under different courts and a different set of laws. A child who is an Israeli settler would be protected from being arrested in the middle of night for example but different rules will apply to a Palestinian child living down the road.

it’s very difficult to use international law to justify the actions of the Israeli authorities in the West Bank.

Dulra · 30/05/2024 12:21

mollyfolk · 30/05/2024 12:18

International law allows for this “administrative detention “ as a temporary, exceptional measure. Israel’s actions far exceed what the law allows - 50 years into the occupation of the West Bank.

also Israeli settlers in the West Bank are tried under different courts and a different set of laws. A child who is an Israeli settler would be protected from being arrested in the middle of night for example but different rules will apply to a Palestinian child living down the road.

it’s very difficult to use international law to justify the actions of the Israeli authorities in the West Bank.

Thanks completely agree.

DownNative · 30/05/2024 13:25

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 08:10

You are justifying kidnapping and jailing CHILDREN. Can you hear yourself? And presumably (because this is mumsnet) a mother too.

If I were you, I'd take a more considered, less emotional view of the situation at hand with reference to various bodies of law.

For clarity, law (domestic & International) is not the same thing as morality. Some degree of overlap exists, but fundamentally they're two different things.

Please try not to make a Strawman Argument. 👍

freethem · 30/05/2024 13:43

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Dulra · 30/05/2024 13:49

DownNative · 30/05/2024 13:25

If I were you, I'd take a more considered, less emotional view of the situation at hand with reference to various bodies of law.

For clarity, law (domestic & International) is not the same thing as morality. Some degree of overlap exists, but fundamentally they're two different things.

Please try not to make a Strawman Argument. 👍

If I were you

You're not .....so why are you suggesting to someone you don't know how they should think and respond.

You clearly want an intellectual academic debate so what are you doing on a discussion board in Mumsnet. And what's the point of your patronising juvenile emojis surely they're beneath you.

Mellowdramadrama · 30/05/2024 13:55

TakeMe2Insanity · 30/05/2024 08:10

You are justifying kidnapping and jailing CHILDREN. Can you hear yourself? And presumably (because this is mumsnet) a mother too.

100% agree with you @TakeMe2Insanity
Couldn't have said it better myself

anotherlevel · 30/05/2024 14:09

@Mellowdramadrama I agree with @TakeMe2Insanity too.

DownNative · 30/05/2024 14:14

Dulra · 30/05/2024 13:49

If I were you

You're not .....so why are you suggesting to someone you don't know how they should think and respond.

You clearly want an intellectual academic debate so what are you doing on a discussion board in Mumsnet. And what's the point of your patronising juvenile emojis surely they're beneath you.

Edited
Grace Helbig Vr GIF by This Might Get

It's called friendly advice, Dulra.

Oh, is there absolutely no place for intellectual debate/discussion on war and conflict in Mumsnet's Conflict In The Middle East forum?! 👀

I'm not going to apologise for that.

Interesting all the same to observe attempts to deflect from a previous posters plainly wrong attempts to conflate hostages with prisoners though.

DownNative · 30/05/2024 14:16

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freethem · 30/05/2024 14:22

Spy? What are you on about?
Posters on here are more than capable of analysing posts and figuring how others post.

Efacsen · 30/05/2024 14:24

freethem · 30/05/2024 14:22

Spy? What are you on about?
Posters on here are more than capable of analysing posts and figuring how others post.

Absolutely - what a bizarre accusation

Dulra · 30/05/2024 14:25

DownNative · 30/05/2024 14:14

It's called friendly advice, Dulra.

Oh, is there absolutely no place for intellectual debate/discussion on war and conflict in Mumsnet's Conflict In The Middle East forum?! 👀

I'm not going to apologise for that.

Interesting all the same to observe attempts to deflect from a previous posters plainly wrong attempts to conflate hostages with prisoners though.

It's called friendly advice, Dulra.
Unsolicited though so comes across as patronising

Oh, is there absolutely no place for intellectual debate/discussion on war and conflict in Mumsnet's Conflict In The Middle East forum?!

Of course there is a space for intellectual debate but as a mumsnet discussion forum there is also space for emotion which you don't want and often criticise people for, that's why I queried why you aren't posting on a more academic platform

freethem · 30/05/2024 14:30

Exactly, people are allowed to have emotions. It's called being a human being and not a robot.

freethem · 30/05/2024 14:54

freethem · 30/05/2024 14:22

Spy? What are you on about?
Posters on here are more than capable of analysing posts and figuring how others post.

Forgot to tag @DownNative

Auvergne63 · 30/05/2024 15:12

If I were you, I'd take a more considered, less emotional view of the situation
Emotions, especially anger, have been the catalysts for change in the world.
The French revolution, the Civil rights movement, the end of apartheid and so many more have happened because of people's anger at the injustice they faced.
Protests are happening Tel Aviv against genocide. What do you think that is?

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