Syria

[mids2019]

Has Syria been forgotten and who is to blame for civilian deaths in this region. It is Assad or rebel groups?

(Its a conflict in the middle East with huge civilian casualties but doesn't involve Israel so I guess this thread will for a death)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#:~:text=The%20Syrian%20civil%20war%20(Arabic,sponsored%20and%20non%2Dstate%20actors.

Not complete tosh at all, and you know it.

Does that give you some understanding of how people in Israel feel 🤔

On some Syrians wanting to return home the Financial Times has an article today which gives all the different points of view - https://on.ft.com/3Bqa0hK
It looks like of the 1m in Germany about 150k have German passports so the question of when Germany might ask 800k to return etc is something Germany and indeed other countries are considering.

In a sense if you hate colonialism in the past of places like the UK and Germany you probably also feel that our taking so very many people from their home countries to serve the needs of wealthy white old people in hospitals is just as much damage to the homelands of the foreign workers surely? It can really help their original countries if the young people go back and build the nation up there.

It is. Islamophobia is rife on these threads. It is always disguised as genuine concern when it is everything but.

@Xenia

Yes you sound like you really want to help. Full of compassion as usual.

International human rights organisations, the UN, Israel-based organisations like B'Tselem and Adalah, and even the US have all published reports confirming cases of inequality and discrimination in Israel. These include cases in which laws themselves are discriminatory, as well as cases in which laws are simply not enforced and protections not enacted in relation to individuals or populations from minorities. When considering the treatment of minority groups, it's also relevant to consider how people are being treated in the Occupied Territories, where there is again clear evidence of human rights abuses and discrimination against the people who call(ed) those places home.

Have a read.
https://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/database-discriminatory-israel/
And this
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/arabs-in-israel/

@Xenia maybe give people a little time to process things and work out what they want to do before rushing to push people back to an unstable country devastated by war.

Refugees didn't go abroad for a holiday and just think "oh, it's really nice here, I think I'll stay". Many people who have refugee status have experienced traumatic bereavement, torture, starvation, sexual assault, physical violence, and a very real chance that they would be murdered if they didn't run for their lives. It can take years to start feeling safe again, if that is even possible for some people, and the idea of going back to the place where those things happened, even when that place is also somewhere that is still 'home', can take time to work through.

Additionally, you're asking people to close up businesses, leave careers, relocate entire families, to take their loved ones into a very uncertain situation. Would you move your child to Syria at the moment? Probably not. You might be even less likely to move them if you had first-hand experience of what some of the forces still at play are capable of doing.

I'm with the Syrians on this one. It's only been a few days and until they've seen how the situation shakes out, it would be madness to instantly go home. Even then, it means uprooting kids from school, and people from jobs, sorting out a new home (or refurbishing an old one) and all the paperwork that entails. A lot of Syrians have been abroad for over a decade; there's no guarantee than their original homes are still standing in hard-hit places like Homs. On top of that, HTS may be in charge, but there's still a lot of other players floating around and a real risk of ISIS popping up.

For now, let's show grace, compassion and commonsense.

I am more concerned about the asylum seekers that have been left in limbo because the Home Office have paused applications. I wish we allowed people to work whilst their claims are processed as it can take years to do.

Our local coffee shop is run by a Syrian family. They have no intention of leaving. Their business is here. Their children are in schools here. Their friends are here. What would they be going back to? (And we want them to stay as they are lovely and an asset to our neighbour).

Well, we say "hopeful they will be able to go back to Syria"... Because we do. If they will not be able to go back that means the area is still fucked.
The sentence itself is not badly intended. Depends on the meaning behind it. Though racists usually simply say "I hope they will go back to Syria" making it easy to distinguish between well wishers and people just want them gone IYSWIM

Because we do. If they will not be able to go back that means the area is still fucked.
Not necessarily. There are many, many reasons why they might not want to go back. It isn't black and white.
The sentence itself is not badly intended.
If you say so.
Though racists usually simply say "I hope they will go back to Syria" making it easy to distinguish between well wishers and people just want them gone IYSWIM
I don't have an insight into how the mind of a racist works but I know that racism can take many forms and, at times, can be extremely subtle. I speak from experience. So no, it isn't always easy to distinguish.

I am talking about "able to" not "wanting to" or "having to". Don't you change my words.

Syrians being able to go back IS a good thing.

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2024-12-11/syria-assad-pentagon-plan/

Another perspective on what's happened that you obviously won't see on mainstream media so thought it was worth posting for that reason.

On the refugee situation, I'm finding the treatment of Syrian refugees very disturbing to be honest. As others have said, this has literally just happened. People can't even think about returning at the moment until it becomes clear what they are returning to. Syrians here were on the news earlier this week, delighted about the fall of Assad. I hope things work out for them, whatever they decide to do.

For now, let's show grace, compassion and commonsense

it seems that Syrian refugees are undeserving of any of that.

Our local coffee shop is run by a Syrian family. They have no intention of leaving. Their business is here. Their children are in schools here. Their friends are here. What would they be going back to? (And we want them to stay as they are lovely and an asset to our neighbour).
but still some would rather see them Close shop and leave than stay a minute longer.

Physically many could return but I expect the vast majority will stay in their new countries where they have built a new community and life.

I never said they shouldn't stay wherever they are.

I don't think "vast majority" will not return considering living standards and treatment of the majority. Most of them are in countries around and while some built good lives, many, many did not. Majority are waiting too see what wiill happen.

As I mentioned above this is more a German issue not UK. I believe the UK has 28,000 Syrians and Germany about 1m and in Germany most of those do not have German passports and for those not yet applying for asylum in Germany yet Germany and some other countries have halted new applications due to the changed situation. So this is more of a difficult issue for countries other than the UK. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv3qnzz7rjo

My point was a more general one - about whether it is fair on countries abroad to take their best people who then work to the benefit of countries like Germany and the UK. Is that any better than the UK and Germany in the 1800s sending their people to take over other countries eg the UK only left Aden/ Yemen in 1967. Or may be this should be extended to damage done by the Ottoman Empire which at one point covered parts of Iraq, Syria and Egypt.

I agree with people on the thread however that not all Syrians will want to go straight home if at all.

My point was a more general one - about whether it is fair on countries abroad to take their best people who then work to the benefit of countries like Germany and the UK
But hasn’t this been always the case? tGermany needs close to 300000 skilled migrants workers to fill in their aging workforce, Annually.

Skilled labour have always moved around countries. Of DS’s engineering degree class, the majority have left the uk and have roles in other countries.

I agree that it’s always been the case, but I also see pp’s point about those skilled people then missing in their own countries.
That whole model seems somewhat flawed to me. Germany is by far not the only country with an aging population.
How can the countries where workers usually come from produce enough skilled workers for their own local economy and to go and plug the gaps in the labor market in places like Germany, the UK and all the others?
300000 skilled migrants annually for Germany alone, where are all those people going come from in the long term?

Yes, never the faux concern for the UK losing workers, always for the poor countries from which we are 'stealing' workers (in reality workers moving to where their skills are most highly valued because, you know, they are actual human beings with agency).

Who says that there is never any concern for the UK losing workers?
I, for one definitely think it’s a concern when for instance medical professionals leave because the conditions are better elsewhere.
Brain drain can definitely be an issue.