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Conflict in the Middle East

The road to peace for those in Gaza

121 replies

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 18/05/2024 19:31

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

Trust me, once the money starts to pour into Gaza again as it has done and the money was used/wasted by Hamas/etc - Gaza will be a place that people will want to go for their hols. Very quickly, the people of both Gaza and Israel will become comfortable with the other. However, there will be forces that do not want the two sides to live in peace,

Look at NI - it was the disbanding of the IRA and the other outfits that resulted in relative peace for the ordinary people of NI and those in England. Yes, there are still some on both sides who want to see problems but thankfully, the majority of people see the benefits of peace

OP posts:
ssd · 18/05/2024 19:41

If only you were right

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 19/05/2024 10:16

I am given half the chance and this is why the serial posters are not posting on this thread.

OP posts:
Liv999 · 19/05/2024 12:03

Hamas won't be eradicated for a start, and who's going to remove the settlers from the west bank? Absolutely no one

Itoosurvive · 19/05/2024 12:17

Whilst the armed brigades of Hamas and the PIJ need to be rendered inoperable, the unpalatable (for many) reality is that the administrative wing of Hamas will need to remain in place. Even Israelis realise that total defeat of Hamas is impossible.
Added to your list and included in the peace process should be the release of the vast majority of the Palestinians currently being held in Israeli prisons. Also essential is the establishment and recognition of a Palestinian state on the west bank.

Dulra · 19/05/2024 12:41

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 18/05/2024 19:31

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

Trust me, once the money starts to pour into Gaza again as it has done and the money was used/wasted by Hamas/etc - Gaza will be a place that people will want to go for their hols. Very quickly, the people of both Gaza and Israel will become comfortable with the other. However, there will be forces that do not want the two sides to live in peace,

Look at NI - it was the disbanding of the IRA and the other outfits that resulted in relative peace for the ordinary people of NI and those in England. Yes, there are still some on both sides who want to see problems but thankfully, the majority of people see the benefits of peace

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

And release Palestinian detainees in Israeli prisons who have not been convicted of any crime.
Before any of this can happen there needs to be trust and good faith on both sides. Peace is hard won through negotiations and there has to be a willingness on both sides to engage in a hard and long contentious process.

Itoosurvive · 19/05/2024 12:59

In order for a peace process to work, both Israeli negotiators and their Palestinian counterparts must genuinely want to be working for a long term peace. It’s not about bargaining and scoring points, but about assurances and guarantees.

An absolute, immediate, ceasefire.
Withdraw all IDF from Gaza.
Release all hostages.
Open Gaza borders
Supply aid

Israel, Hamas, Hezbullah and PA sit down alongside a mediating party (Norway?) and start discussions about how to work out a 2 state solution with a view to making every tomorrow slightly less miserable than every today.

Hamas to remain in government. Palestinians must at least be allowed to retain some dignity. A long term peace will never be achieved through one side crushing the other.
Palestinians guarantee cessation of all violent acts on Israel and Israelis. Hamas disarm and disbands its military arm. The remaining Hamas government will also have to show that it is making a genuine effort to outlaw violence.
There will be splinter groups that carry on violent acts and it will up to the Palestinian people that want peace and the Hamas authority (and also if needed, external bodies) to ensure that anti-Israel acts are neutralised.

Both parties must drop the hate. There will be no revenge for either October 7 or the devastation of Gaza and its population. You cannot insist on punishment for anyone. The terrorists believed what they were doing was right, but they were wrong, just as the Israelis believe themselves to be right but they too are wrong. Retribution and revenge won’t work .
By following up these atrocities, you are carrying forward with you the “shit days”. They are finished. The dead are dead, the only possible thing we can do in their honour is try to do our best to prevent a repeat of what took them away in the first place.

There will be amnesty. For Israel to prove that it genuinely wants peace, it should release the majority of Palestinians detained. Each side has to keep on proving to the other that non-violence is the way forward.

The PR side of this is telling both Palestinian and Israeli populations that it is in both their best interests to go along with the process that happening. It’s a big PR “sell” to each camp.

The line that Hamas takes is “Sorry, we didn’t quite get agreement on article 14 where we can eradicate the Zionist project, but the good news is we’re all going to have a better standard of living, the Israelis have taken their boots off our throats and we’ve got the opportunity to develop. Oh yes, and there’s lot of foreign aid and investment coming in as well. “

The line that Israel takes is “All the time we keep going on about all that we want to do is just live in peace, well now’s the chance.” Israelis can now have that, or at least the chance of that, if they do certain things. Here is the opportunity.

Israel is going to have to live with losing settlements and the West Bank becoming Palestine. In an ideal world a small proportion would remain, deliberately working within and alongside Palestinian communities. Unfortunately what I’ve seen of the settlers, very few would want to do that. So swap settlers for a few Peaceniks that like growing olives and want to get on with their neighbours. See if they can live relatively peacefully together, just like they were doing 150 years ago.

It may seem like Israel is giving far more than the Palestinians in this list, but then they had far more to give in the first place.

Personally, I have always believed that all Israel ever really was to be left alone so that it could just get on with business. Unfortunately, how they have gone about this, especially over the past 50 years, is in a way that has caused continuous; harm, suffering and unfairness to the Palestinians.

Supporters who want a Palestinian state where Israel is today, simply aren’t going to get it. 9 Million Israelis aren’t going anywhere (apart from the settlers).

The reality is that Israel has got enough materiel to successfully defend the Gaza border and another incursion like Oct 7 can pretty easily be defended against. Alternatively a 3 mile buffer zone guarded by UN around Gaza.

That is what, in my opinion needs to happen. To date, Netanyahu has made all the very worst decisions possible. His invasion of Gaza was unnecessary. By far the majority of operations to release hostages involve negotiations and Netanyahu immediately rejected that option in favour of death and destruction, because it suited better his own political survival.
It's frightening how one powerful man's self interest (backed by a few deeply unpleasant extremists) can lead a whole country and its neighbours into an abyss.

EasternStandard · 19/05/2024 13:02

Eradicating Hamas is the sticking point and hard part

Onand · 19/05/2024 13:04

Only works if you remove the religious elements of both sides. Otherwise it’s a pipe dream.

Tel12 · 19/05/2024 13:09

If the war ended today it would be decades before anyone would be able to holiday in Gaza. I don't know what the solution is, all I can hope for an end to the slaughter. I guess that when the borders are open the survivors will flood out. Millions of refugees. I also think that Israel's standing has been hugely damaged on the international stage. Lose/lose all round.

Itoosurvive · 19/05/2024 13:10

"Eradicating Hamas is the sticking point and hard part" @EasternStandard

Unfortunately, to make a peace process work, the governing wing of Hamas will need to remain and I have a feeling that in a few years time Hamas or some iteration of that organisation will, still be influential in Gaza.

Itoosurvive · 19/05/2024 13:14

I also think that Israel's standings has been hugely damage on the international stage. Lose/lose all round.
@Tel12

Totally agree. This has been the worst PR disaster for Israel in its history. Never has Israel's standing in the world, or sympathy for it, been so low. Even staunch supporters like US and UK are feeling uneasy about how it has responded. And all because of one man and his cronies and his desire to cling on to power.

AhNowTed · 19/05/2024 13:20

Good thread.

Bagpussnotbothered · 19/05/2024 13:40

Peace won't be immediate. Northern Ireland's peace process is still on-going today and involved a partial amnesty (no more than 2 years in jail) and acceptance that both sides would rule in the devolved administration. A lot of people on both sides are still angry about that and the lack of justice for their loved ones.

It will take years and a different Iraeli administration.

greenlettuce · 19/05/2024 13:47

The situation is tragic and I think the points made by the OP are valid. For peace there needs to be change. I believe there are parallels with NI and that can be used as a model.

sleepyscientist · 19/05/2024 13:54

Maybe the land should be handed to an independent state (yes all of it) governed by the UN until both sides can be trusted to get along. We don't need a Palestine and we don't need an Isreal what we need is peace.

OhMaria2 · 19/05/2024 13:56

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 18/05/2024 19:31

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

Trust me, once the money starts to pour into Gaza again as it has done and the money was used/wasted by Hamas/etc - Gaza will be a place that people will want to go for their hols. Very quickly, the people of both Gaza and Israel will become comfortable with the other. However, there will be forces that do not want the two sides to live in peace,

Look at NI - it was the disbanding of the IRA and the other outfits that resulted in relative peace for the ordinary people of NI and those in England. Yes, there are still some on both sides who want to see problems but thankfully, the majority of people see the benefits of peace

Explain pre Hamas Israeli violence

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 19/05/2024 14:20

Dulra · 19/05/2024 12:41

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

And release Palestinian detainees in Israeli prisons who have not been convicted of any crime.
Before any of this can happen there needs to be trust and good faith on both sides. Peace is hard won through negotiations and there has to be a willingness on both sides to engage in a hard and long contentious process.

Yes, release those who have not been to court

Trust will take time, but the people of gaza will be a billion miles better off without Hamas or other clowns like that

OP posts:
Dulra · 19/05/2024 15:24

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 19/05/2024 14:20

Yes, release those who have not been to court

Trust will take time, but the people of gaza will be a billion miles better off without Hamas or other clowns like that

but the people of gaza will be a billion miles better off without Hamas or other clowns like that

Agree but they have to come to that conclusion themselves. Forced regime change never works

Dulra · 19/05/2024 15:25

Bagpussnotbothered · 19/05/2024 13:40

Peace won't be immediate. Northern Ireland's peace process is still on-going today and involved a partial amnesty (no more than 2 years in jail) and acceptance that both sides would rule in the devolved administration. A lot of people on both sides are still angry about that and the lack of justice for their loved ones.

It will take years and a different Iraeli administration.

Yes peace is hard won and easily lost. The work and commitment to peace never ends.

greenlettuce · 19/05/2024 15:38

sleepyscientist · 19/05/2024 13:54

Maybe the land should be handed to an independent state (yes all of it) governed by the UN until both sides can be trusted to get along. We don't need a Palestine and we don't need an Isreal what we need is peace.

Israel is a country with a democratic government it is recognised by all countries as independent country.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 19/05/2024 17:17

Dulra · 19/05/2024 15:24

but the people of gaza will be a billion miles better off without Hamas or other clowns like that

Agree but they have to come to that conclusion themselves. Forced regime change never works

Thanks
no one is forcing a regime on them
Hamas came into power just about by lying to the people that voted them in EG, "we will find peaceful ways to make amends with Israel"

Never mind Israel that left Gaza to run their country, the Hams lot started killing their opposition on the streets etc and ran them out of Gaza to the West Bank - that is Hamas for you

Like NI, once people on both sides have experienced a period of peace, they won't want their political lying leaders to go to war on their behalf
I recall seeing videos and new reports of brave women in Gaza speaking out against Hams and vidily recall a woman crying and saying something like ' hamas brought this upone them they've lost their home, Hams gives jobs and money to family and friends and drive around in big cars - I have 5 sons and not one of them has a job as it all goes to Hamas

Hamas leader find it easy to bang on about war but don't want to go to the front live but stay in their hotels top hotels in UAE etc

OP posts:
MissyB1 · 19/05/2024 17:44

It would also help if Netanyahu and his very right wing Government disappeared asap. They haven’t just destroyed Gaza they have caused huge damage to Israel.

A more sane Government could then negotiate on the two state solution.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 19/05/2024 17:47

MissyB1 · 19/05/2024 17:44

It would also help if Netanyahu and his very right wing Government disappeared asap. They haven’t just destroyed Gaza they have caused huge damage to Israel.

A more sane Government could then negotiate on the two state solution.

Yes, he and his right-wing lot should go, but the only people that "destroyed Gaza" is Hamas with the help of Iran

Hamas inflicted the this on the people of gaza whilst their leader live it up in 7 star hotels

OP posts:
Itoosurvive · 19/05/2024 18:45

Yes, he and his right-wing lot should go, but the only people that "destroyed Gaza" is Hamas with the help of Iran

Hamas inflicted the this on the people of gaza whilst their leader live it up in 7 star hotels @DistinguishedSocialCommentator

You said he (Netanyahu) and his right wing lot should go, presumably because you disapprove of Israel's response, yet in the same sentence you blame Hamas for destroying Gaza.
Make your mind up, who is responsible for all this death and destruction post October 7th ?

It seems pretty clear to me that it is Israel's reply that is the sole reason for the the deaths of tens of thousands of human beings and the loss of homes for the hundred of thousands of others.

The assault on Gaza was not to release hostages ( obvious now, and hats off to posters who said 5 months ago Israel cares not one jot about the hostages) but to exact a bloody revenge under the disguise of "Eliminating Hamas", which in itself looks to be unfeasible.

PeasfullPerson · 19/05/2024 19:01

I appreciate a post about the road to peace.

Bit of a large problem that nobody has quantified a way of measuring when Hamas has been eradicated, a most likely impossible goal. And that the way this quest to control the threat of Hamas has taken people even further away from a peaceful solution.