The road to peace for those in Gaza

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

Trust me, once the money starts to pour into Gaza again as it has done and the money was used/wasted by Hamas/etc - Gaza will be a place that people will want to go for their hols. Very quickly, the people of both Gaza and Israel will become comfortable with the other. However, there will be forces that do not want the two sides to live in peace,

Look at NI - it was the disbanding of the IRA and the other outfits that resulted in relative peace for the ordinary people of NI and those in England. Yes, there are still some on both sides who want to see problems but thankfully, the majority of people see the benefits of peace

I am 100% sure that Palestinian parents don’t teach their children to become suicide bombers. We got evidence in other threads here that their schools also did not teach hate.

But you know that what has happened to Palestinians will result in hate regardless - and how can we blame them?

Imagine 47,000 Irish Catholics were killed by the Protestants since 2000, that the Protestants had been burning / stealing Catholic homes within Ireland after separation, and burning their crops. Would it not be understandable for hate to develop?

Hamas was not born out of nowhere - they started - I have been told - when Rabin’s plan for a 2SS was put on hold due to his assassination by a Jew. They have been fed by the actions of Israel subsequently.

You are right that the situation in the ME is different to that in Ireland, but it’s still going to require negotiations. What other way can there be?

The IDF ain’t going eliminate hate with more killing.

There was a lot of support though for Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams though, what once was the political wing of the IRA, so you could compare that to Palestinian support for the the political wing of Hamas. Nothing is black and white

@statsfun
Bear in mind also the history of pogroms, the shoah and so on over many centuries
Thus implies that because of events of the last century that Israel has carte blanche to murder and maim Palestinian children and to kill adults without trial in order to remove some members of a terrorist organisation. 2% of Gaza’s child population has been killed or injured since October. The injuries that doctors are seeing are catastrophic and life altering. There are 20,000 traumatised orphans. Children have had limbs amputated without anaesthetic, have died alone trapped under buildings screaming for help. Dogs have been eating human bodies.
The pro-Israeli lobby looses no opportunity to exploit past suffering
In order to justify inflicting suffering on the innocent in their lust for revenge against the guilty.

No, it really doesn't imply that at all. No one says that, and no one thinks that.

What the history does mean is that Israel doesn't assume that people mean them no harm. They assume that if they want to be safe, they need to ensure that themselves.

There appears to be no public discourse at all in Israel about the humanitarian crisis that has been caused by the actions of their elected government on their behalf.
37,0000 people have been killed as a direct consequence of the actions of the IDF. There is no expression of remorse or concern. Nothing but constant accusations of antisemitism, accusations that it minimises the suffering of the 7/10 victims to highlight the considerably larger number of Palestinian child and civilian deaths and smearing of entire countries that call them out

None at all? Have you asked every single person in Israel? Did I imagine the news story I saw earlier about peace activists in Israel?

They’re saying the same thing as me:
”Israeli society should say in a loud and clear voice that we are opposed to these acts,”…..“It’s not a lot to ask, not to die from hunger, you know.”

I would like to hear more from the people in Israel who don’t support the way the response has been carried out. I imagine that in a climate of fevered revenge it is hard to speak out, although I know some have. It must be horrific to feel under threat from Hamas and other groups, while simultaneously having to deal with the knowledge that your own governments actions are causing the death of children, women and men who have done nothing to warrant their punishment. It makes you lose faith in humanity.

There was ( sadly) popular support for terrorism ( whether Protestant terrorism or Catholic) in many areas of Northern Ireland. I have witnessed this myself. Areas of social deprivation were particularly susceptible to the manipulation of terrorist groups because opportunities and lives were so limited by poverty. I imagine Gaza has many pockets of poverty and those are ripe grounds for the growth of extremism.
That said - there wasn’t the demonisation of the other side that you seem to get in the Middle East conflict (from both Israelis and Palestinians) I think the vast majority knew that the “other side” were ordinary people just like them.

@Limesodaagain
I agree. This is another reason why the bombing of university and hospital infrastructure is such a tragedy. The enclave will be returned to the Middle Ages except with uneducated unemployed gangs of illiterate jihadist thugs armed with modern weapons popping in and out of tunnels Hamas on steroids as it were. It’s not possible to get every disaffected teenager without genocide.
A peace deal with enough engagement from more moderate elements of Hamas, a new administration, demilitarisation, support to rebuild and for employment support for actors who can bring the people towards peace- this is what is needed. There will inevitably be support for Hamas after what Israel has done , but analysts are confident that there is also sufficient anger against them to allow the emergence of an alternative peace partner in the medium
term. This possibility moves further away with every Palestinian death.
The IDF are not doing Gaza a favour with this war, they are doing a favour for Hamas.

Agreed

I think pp was talking about Ireland (ie Republic of Ireland) in her comments, not Northern Ireland.

There wasn't the support for terrorists murdering civilians in either the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland that there is in Gaza.

Why are you focusing on where there wasn't support for murderous terrorism? When you know full well that it's true of everywhere relevant to the Northern Ireland Peace Process - Dublin, Belfast, London and anywhere else in either the UK or the Republic of Ireland - so which I said doesn't change the substance of the argument.

What's relevant is that there is this support in Gaza. Not everyone, but a not insignificant part of the population. That was already the case well before this war. And that's why the situation is fundamentally different.

It's almost as if you can't argue with the substance of my point, so you're pointing at squirrels elsewhere...

@statsfun I just think you should stop the comparisons with NI, particularly as some of the things you said upthread demonstrate an incomplete understanding of the NI situation.

It's really not me who keeps comparing to the NI peace process and saying that what worked there is what Israel should do.

In fact, that's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying.

Here's the first reference in this thread

Here's another

Another one here.

And it's mentioned time and again on other threads.

If people stop trying to compare completely incomparable situations then I am happy to stop arguing against it.

You didn't read the second part of my sentence it seems. Here it is again.

I just think you should stop the comparisons with NI, particularly as some of the things you said upthread demonstrate an incomplete understanding of the NI situation.

I'm not the only poster who's pulled you up on some inaccuracies. Better to stop now.

Nah, not until people upthread stop making silly comparisons.

I don't need to know the ins and outs of the Northern Ireland peace process to know that it isn't comparable to the Middle East.

And yes, of course I know where it all took place. But again, it doesn't change the point.