The road to peace for those in Gaza

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

Eradicate Hamas from Gaza
Release all Israeli hostages taken on Oct 7th
Remove settlers from the West Bank
Remove the Israeil PM

Result =

Peace for the ordinary people of Gaza and the people of Israel = both sides win

Trust me, once the money starts to pour into Gaza again as it has done and the money was used/wasted by Hamas/etc - Gaza will be a place that people will want to go for their hols. Very quickly, the people of both Gaza and Israel will become comfortable with the other. However, there will be forces that do not want the two sides to live in peace,

Look at NI - it was the disbanding of the IRA and the other outfits that resulted in relative peace for the ordinary people of NI and those in England. Yes, there are still some on both sides who want to see problems but thankfully, the majority of people see the benefits of peace

Peace is possible as soon as hostages are released and Hamas leaders and right-hand people all dealt with

Are there any rewards for info relating to the info of Hamas terrorists whereabouts that would allow IDF to take decisive action?

Are you referring to the 10,000 Palestinian hostages or do you consider they are of less significance than the tiny number of Israeli hostages?

This is wonderful.

@youngones1

tiny number of Israeli hostages? Really? Their friends and families are living in hell not knowing how and where they are or if they are even alive.

Please stop being ridiculous and deliberately obtuse.
#No one is going to fall for that. Try again, if you wish

Agree

And the friends and families of the Palestinian hostages are too.

I agree that the response is disproportionate, but comparing the murder of over a thousand people and the rape and kidnap of more is horrible.

The "response" is appropriate and if anyone is to blame its HAMAS all day long. The B's even used their own people as human shields and murdered some when they were trying to leave and then blamed it on Israel

Hamas is corrupt just like most other groups that rule countries etc, all are corrupt to different extent but corrupt nevertheless

This is very good from the brillaint Haaretz columnist Gideon Levi.

https://archive.ph/HalVV

Roni Kuban's fascinating interview with him last week on Israeli news outlet Kan 11 ("Pgisha," or "A Rendezvous with Roni Kuban") may spark hope for a different reality. The public broadcaster's diplomatic and Jerusalem-area reporter presents: This is what the state could be.

The vision described by Maswadeh is very complex and painful, on the face of it preposterous and full of contradictions: a single democratic state. The very idea provokes opposition, disbelief, disdain, and skepticism in both Israelis and Palestinians, and yet, it inspires hope.

To many Palestinians, Maswadeh is a collaborator. To many Israeli Jews, he is an Arab, that is, suspect by definition. And yet, it's impossible not to respect this impressive young man and appreciate just how far he has come in such a short time – and, above all, against all odds.

https://archive.ph/Xqjmv

It is as if your neighbour raped and murdered all the women in your family that he could conveniently get hold of, and implied that unless you leave and let him have your house, he will be coming back for the rest.

There, sorted your analogy for you.

And that is the issue, isn't it, the implication that there will be more attacks like that. This is a big part of the reason for the level of response. Israel experienced this brutal attack as a threat to its very existence.

Bear in mind also the history of pogroms, the shoah and so on over many centuries.

@Gunnersforthecup “Bear in mind also the history of pogroms, the shoah and so on over many centuries”
So it’s all right then because we understand why they are doing it?

Not sure how you could interpret what I wrote as saying that any of this is “alright”?

You’re right about corruption- as we wait for Netanyahu himself to face fraud charges.

But you’re wrong waiting for Hamas to be disbanded. The actions of the IDF have added fuel to the fire they wanted to extinguish. The next generation of angry traumatised Palestinians need not call themselves Hamas but they’re not going to go be calmed easily.

The Israeli government DID and DOES have a choice. They didn’t have to use dumb bombs and prevent insufficient aid and medications to go into Gaza. Even their best ally US thinks the same.

So it's OK that your neighbour "raped and murdered all the women in your family that he could conveniently get hold of, and implied that unless you leave and let him have your house, he will be coming back for the rest"

You're going to ignore the clear and current threat to your family and invite him over for a bbq?

How is it that the reference to historic pogrims is what you took from @Gunnersforthecup 's post instead of the improved analogy?

A difference between Northern Ireland peace process and Israel is that I don't believe that Irish Catholics actually hated Irish Protestants and wanted them all dead. They hadn't been taught in school and from their family that killing them was the best thing they could achieve in their life. Even (perhaps especially) if it cost their own life to do it. If Northern Irish or English civilians had been brutally murdered by the IRA and their bodies paraded through the streets of Dublin, no one would have cheered at their deaths. As far as I'm aware, anyway: Irish posters can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

A large demilitarised zone might be the right solution around Gaza, but it's only 12 miles between Tel Aviv (population 400,000) and the West Bank border. That's too short missile-flight time for the Iron dome to work, or for Israel to protect Tel Aviv - and other major population centres - from missile attack in any way. That's why preventing the West Bank from getting militarized is Israel's only security option until the hatred and attacks stop.

And given that the attacks on Jews by Palestinian Arabs started in the 1920s when the Arabs very much had the upper hand in every way, it's not realistic to say that the way to achieve that is to 'just start being nice to the Palestinians'. Unfortunately, history tells us that Israel's actions are not the reason for Palestinian violence against them, and giving Palestinians a better position to attack Israel from isn't the road to peace.

That doesn't mean that the way Israel has waged this war is correct and shouldn't be questioned.

I agree with Germany's statement in response to the ICC the other day. What Hamas did on October 7th was utterly horrific and unjustifiable, and can't be compared to Israel's response. Israel has the right to defend itself, but International law must be followed.

A difference between Northern Ireland peace process and Israel is that I don't believe that Irish Catholics actually hated Irish Protestants and wanted them all dead. They hadn't been taught in school and from their family that killing them was the best thing they could achieve in their life.
There was definitely a level of hate and schools in the North are segregated, Catholics taught separately to Protestant's. There is some work to improve that particularly amongst the middle classes but the majority of schools are still segregated but no I doubt hate is or was ever taught in schools, but during the troubles there was mistrust and distance between both communities and a level of hate amongst some.

If Northern Irish or English civilians had been brutally murdered by the IRA and their bodies paraded through the streets of Dublin, no one would have cheered at their deaths. As far as I'm aware, anyway: Irish posters can correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Why would they have been paraded through the streets of Dublin? People in Ireland did not support the IRA ever or any terrorist organisation or any of their terrorist activity. I know you are only making it as a comparison but to any way suggest that we supported terrorist activity is insulting. Also how many Palestinians were actually cheering though, what percentage of the population? I would argue it is probably similar to the percentage of Israeli protester's that are currently blocking and sabotaging food trucks going into Gaza. I don't think Israelis would like us to assume they were representative of them so we shouldn't do that to Palestinians either.

@statsfun
Sorry I missed this sentence in my original reply to you
A difference between Northern Ireland peace process and Israel is that I don't believe that Irish Catholics actually hated Irish Protestants and wanted them all dead
You do know there was terrorist activity on both sides? This wasn't just the terrorist Catholics murdering the protestants. There was hate, terror and ,murder on both sides, that sentence suggests it was one side doing all the terrorising and responsible for the situation which is not accurate

International Law is utterly meaningless. When countries go to war the gloves come off and all sorts of terrible things happen. It has always been that way and likely always will be.

Few countries actually care about International law. For starters there is nobody to enforce it. It may be enforced afterwards by the victors but before and during war it is utterly meaningless.

Why would they have been paraded through the streets of Dublin? People in Ireland did not support the IRA ever or any terrorist organisation or any of their terrorist activity

That's exactly my point. I can't imagine that ever happening in Dublin. People didn't support the IRA murdering civilians.

But it did happen in Gaza. We all saw the scenes after October 7th: hostages being paraded through the streets, Shania Louk's body being spat on. It wasn't all Palestinians, but it wasn't none of them either. There is non-fringe support for terrorism and the murder of Israeli civilians.

That's what I'm saying is a huge difference between Gaza and Ireland, which means that the Irish Peace process is of limited relevance when considering how to achieve peace in the Middle East.

Why would they have been paraded through the streets of Dublin? People in Ireland did not support the IRA ever or any terrorist organisation or any of their terrorist activity

That's exactly my point. I can't imagine that ever happening in Dublin. People didn't support the IRA murdering civilians.

You are still missing pp's meaning@statsfun Your point doesn't make sense.

The vast majority of people in Dublin didn't support the IRA at all. Not just the murdering civilians bit.

And the fact that you're not even 100% sure that Dubliners wouldn't celebrate and cheer in the streets in response to terrorist atrocites (your 'correct me if I'm wrong' bit) is hugely insulting.

Also agree with pp that you seem a bit confused about all of the belligerents in the NI Troubles.

You are determined to take offense, and it's my point you're ignoring - which is that was never the popular support for terrorism and murder in Ireland that there is in Gaza. Not everyone in Gaza, but not none.

@statsfun
The only reason offense was taken is because what you said was offensive. Nothing determined about it. I'm not sure whether you're ignoring that point or you still don't get it...

Anyway. You are right that there wasn't support for terrorism in Ireland. Nor in GB.