Terrible but not surprised - Jewish community under threat

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx0331xxd7xo

It appears Jews are not safe in the UK at all.

Can we seriously look at the impact of anti semitism now?

Even Golan (Israel Eurovision) received 12 points from the British public (maximum) and given how political Eurovision became maybe this is evidence of a silent UK majority that fundamentally support Israel and have huge sympathy over October 7th having suffered smaller terrorist attacks ourselves. There is a obviously concern about the current war but this in a sense does not undermine our heartfelt sorrow for Israel.

The Eurovision singer having to have an armed guard is indicative of the threats the 'openly Jewish' now face and it would utterly wrong to dismiss this fear. I also think a lot of the silent majority do not openly voice their opinion because they do not want to be looked at as being politically incorrect especially in university campuses and diverse workplaces.I

I highlighted the above arrests to show the gravity of the threats British Jewry face and I think it would be foolish to think that other threats aren't out there. Remember Hamas do have links to other Jihadist terrorist organisations world wide so it may be in their interest to 'being the fight' into foreign soil.

I also think we should let political correctness hide where the most significant terrorist threat lies currently and that is of Islamic Jihadi militants against the Jewish population.

I didn’t mean to cause hurt.

There is a poster on this board who works on building relationships between faith communities. It would be great to see one of our leaders also publicly call on the need for interfaith trust and cohesion.

Instead we had a speech that drives division and ill trust. Not sure if a speech calling for us to unite would be considered too “soft” and note a vote winner.

“It wasn’t, as we saw from other world leaders that day, a condemnation of open gunfire against starving people trying to reach aid trucks in Gaza, or a statement of solidarity with Russian protesters against Putin. It wasn’t even the calling of an election.

Instead, what Britain got was a masterclass in gaslighting. Sunak’s performance made a new art form of rank hypocrisy, as he pretended not to know that the very extremism he criticised was being actively driven by his party and peddled in his speech.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/03/sunak-speech-protest-tories-friday-no-10-caroline-lucas

I agree.
The twitter link posted by pp about Belfast was disturbing. Sectarianism is rearing it's ugly head.

I don’t think you can say that those peacefully protesting Israeli government policies and the humanitarian disaster in Gaza are causing antisemitism. Antisemitism is wrong. The killing of civilians is also wrong. The two are not mutually exclusive.

It’s difficult to try and join in and learn about antisemitism and Jewish perspectives on threads like this.

When I express my concerns and try to start a discussion on what people think led to this, with a view to understanding and educating myself on what might be helpful, I apparently say the wrong thing.

Because I believe that it is usef to educate people and encourage discussions, and that the whole answer isn’t policing. I am wrong.

Because I don’t believe that the protests are wholly to blame for a rise in antisemitism and don’t believe in calling people names, I am in the wrong.

Because I believe there is a definite threat to Jewish safety but also that the word antisemitism is sometimes being used as a political tool, I am also wrong.

I am now going to try and educate myself instead by looking at the resources on this website. I am hoping it will contain some ideas on what the general public can do to help. I see it has a lot of information on security measures, I also hope that it will have information on how to stay mentally healthy while feeling threatened.

https://cst.org.uk/

I was responding to your post looking for evidence on how antisemitism is being used when it is clearly not the case.

Why are Jews - many of whom live in countries which are not israel - to be identified with him?
They shouldn't be, I never said they should, I'm just pointing out how people like him, a leader with a global stage, are at risk of minimising the serious accusation of anti-semitism which unfortunately does impact Jews across the world.

Why are the pronouncements of one self serving politician being offered as evidence that accusations of anti semitism are disingenuous?
I'm not saying accusations of antisemitism are disingenuous I'm saying people like Netanyahu are at risk of people viewing them as such. I don't agree it should put Jews at risk I'm just offering a perspective that it could. It wasn't my original post I was just responding to you looking for evidence.

@YaMuvva and @Limesodaagain I never once said Jews in the UK are responsible for anything Israel does. I'm unsure how you picked that up from what I said.

Everyday Jewish people are not killing Gazans so your last sentence is irrelevant and appears to be downplaying it.

And I disagree with you - antisemitism has risen 250% worldwide and 500% in some places since October 7th. That is a direct link between the rise in pro-Palestinian support and antisemitism. To me that mean it’s the responsibility of people marching to make sure they are doing so in a way that doesn’t perpetuate antisemitism, calling out antisemitic banners/comments/actions. Properly calling it out and refusing to match with this people not just saying “Oh no look at that” and also generally be mindful of how their peaceful actions are so peaceful to Jewish people who are experiencing a rise in hate in no small part because of this support. Wether you mean to or not isn’t relevant

Has anyone seen the news this morning? An attempted attack on a synagogue in France. Police shot and killed the man.

Maybe try just listening instead of inserting your own opinions. That would be a good start. We don't need you to start discussions. We don't need you to minimise the impact the marches have had on the Jewish community. We need you to listen and actually take in what is being said. You said you want to be educated, so let us educate you - read what we're telling you and others. Don't ignore our posts and then repeat comments that have already been deemed inappropriate.

But yes, feel free to look into the CST. Might be an eye opener to see just how much money is being spent on just protecting Jewish nurseries, schools, museums, places of worship etc. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that there are always volunteer guards as well as the paid ones because that's how severe our everyday security concerns are.

My synagogue back home has had firebombs thrown at it in the past, people filming anti-Israel Tiktoks with the synagogue in the background and the local pro-Palestinian marchers make sure to plot their route to walk right past the synagogue on a Saturday. Genuinely, as they come to the synagogue the drumming and chanting gets louder and the march slows down. So don't tell us there's no link between an increase in anti-Semitism and the marches. Don't try to gaslight us into thinking we're imagining it. Please. Show us at least some respect.

People do think you’re wrong, yes. A normal part of life, surely?

CST published information about the rise in antisemitism compared to previous years and breaks down the figures by area and category, as well as look pre and post October 7th.
https://cst.org.uk/news/blog/2024/02/15/antisemitic-incidents-report-2023

from the report
In 2023, 2,410 antisemitic incidents were reported to have taken place in Greater London, rising by 161% from 2022’s total of 923 London-based incidents. CST recorded 555 antisemitic incidents in Greater Manchester, an increase of 163% from the 211 incidents in the corresponding area in 2022. In both cases, these are record annual totals for anti-Jewish hate incidents in these locations, and their combined contribution to the overall figure is 72%, slightly higher than 68% in each of the two preceding years. These communal hubs are home to the largest Jewish populations in the UK, which remain the principal targets of antisemitism. Within Greater London, there were 323 instances of antisemitism reported: among London’s boroughs, more were only recorded in Barnet (864 incidents). It is unusual for Westminster to have the second-highest incident total but, as the capital’s political hub, it was the location of many of the anti-Israel demonstrations post 7 October. While many of their attendees were there in peaceful protest, these marches attracted individuals who were reported for antisemitic placards or hate speech. It was also the site of many of the vigils for Hamas’ victims, which were sometimes targeted by passers-by with anti-Jewish activity. In total, at least 44 of the Westminster-based incidents took place at, or on the way to or from, anti-Israel protests or vigils for the hostages, and two occurred at public Menorah lightings.
Apart from Greater London and Greater Manchester, the police regions with the highest levels of reported antisemitism in 2023 were Hertfordshire with 112 incidents, Essex with 75, West Yorkshire with 75, Scotland with 68, and West Midlands with 63. For the first time ever, antisemitic incidents were recorded in every single police region in the UK.

@PeasfullPerson i don’t think the marches are wholly to blame either, and I wouldn’t have called them anti Israel marches, but I do think there is a problem that the pro Palestinian marches attract an element who unfortunately jump on board to misuse the cause as a vehicle for antisemitism. When people(I am not pointing fingers at you, this is just in general) minimize or deny that this happens, it blocks there from being a way to discuss and collaboratively come up with solutions. I think then when it is effectively ignored, it becomes normalised, which has a wider knock on effect for antisemites who see that it’s possible to be visibly openly antisemitic and people will let it stand in the name of freeing Palestine. It emboldens them further. If this isn’t called out, the risk for Jewish people increased.

this is why I agree with the idea of the marches also having banners condemning hamas and release the hostage posters - not because a pro Palestinian march must make space for Jewish victims too, but because it sends a clear and obvious message that the marches are pro peace for all, and hopefully puts off antisemites from joining.
I also think for the Palestinians’ sake it is important to condemn Hamas, as it reinforces the message that Palestinians and Hamas are not the same, and that their freedom from Hamas is important

Yes, we always had volunteer guards outside shul (synagogue) growing up, on rotation. When we sent my daughter to nursery in the UK, we had to pay an additional fee for the security guard, on top of nursery fees.

I am now going to try and educate myself instead by looking at the resources on this website. I am hoping it will contain some ideas on what the general public can do to help. I see it has a lot of information on security measures, I also hope that it will have information on how to stay mentally healthy while feeling threatened.

Staying mentally healthy while feeling threatened? I’m sorry, who are you feeling threatened by? Oh you must mean the Jewish people feeling threatened? No?

Yup, £1600 per child per year is our current "voluntary" contribution that helps pay for security at our state school. That's in a normal year. Since October we also have something like 8 parent volunteers on top of that. Just for our kids to be safe at school.

Yes, the guy who tried to burn down the Synagogue? Absolutely awful.

Yes...well done to the french police

I’m sorry that you and your community have experienced that level of threat and that you are forced to consider your safety while simply going about your business. You shouldn’t have to deal with that.
I think that sometimes the less extreme voices get intermingled with the other ones on here and it’s hard to remember who said what, and the context in which they said it. Especially when somebody has been what appears to be deliberately antagonistic and then somebody feels the need to respond. Because I would never believe this sort of behaviour is acceptable, do not consider Jewish people to be a large evil homogenous group, and while you may think I don’t say the right things, I wouldn’t stand by and do nothing if I saw something in everyday life.

Thanks Ella. I appreciate the way you explain your perspective about the marches and the information you’ve provided here. I’ve already started reading the large PDF on antisemitism and then I might try some videos. If you or anyone else thinks any of the resources on there are particularly useful please let me know.

Sorry to hear there was another attack.

Thank you for this excellent and very moving post. (I think I might know from your description which Nazi atrocity you mean. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I first read about it when I was a teenager in one of Martin Gilbert's books, I cried a lot, and I will never forget it as long as I live.)

Just for the record, I'm British, not Jewish, and have no connections to Israel or Israelis that I'm aware of. Many years ago, I lived for a while in a town in central Europe, and was told about the fate of the Jewish population of that town during the Nazi occupation. After being crammed into a ghetto for many months, starved, worked to death and persecuted, the entire population, men, women and children, were forced into cattle trucks and taken to the death camp of Treblinka .They were gassed on arrival, and to my almost certain knowledge, there were no survivors. It was so painful and awful just to hear about, and I still often think about it now, how an entire population of several thousand people - who had done nothing at all wrong! - were destroyed in a matter of days, maybe even mere hours (Treblinka wasn't massively far from the town). After I left that town, I lived in a German town for many years, and a building near my home had a plaque on the outside which commemorated the building's former owners, an elderly Jewish couple who died in Auschwitz. The town's Jewish population fell from a four-figure number in 1938/39 to a two-figure number by 1945. It was utterly horrifying to contemplate.

Like you, I completely understand why Jewish people need their own country and a safe haven, and given the horrendous rise in anti-semitism in the last few months, I still completely understand why Israel needs to exist and must continue to exist. I loathe the current Israeli government and I think Netanhayu is a dangerous lunatic. But I find the calls for Israel to no longer exist to be dangerous too, and the enormous rise in anti-semitic violence and harassment we're seeing distresses me hugely. The fact that a segment of the British population don't feel safe in their own country distresses me hugely.

This is the first time I've ventured into this part of MN because quite honestly some of the posters here scare me and some of the posts enrage me, and I doubt I'll post here again after this comment, but I really wanted to tell any Jewish members who feel frightened and isolated that I stand with you.

@PeasfullPerson I think you need to listen more. When you say things like 'Because I don’t believe that the protests are wholly to blame for a rise in antisemitism.....I am in the wrong' then you clearly are not listening because literally noone has ever said this, except perhap a bot stirring things up. Noone who is remotely connected to or clued up on the issue believes this. Antisemitism runs through society & culture. People on this thread are discussing the many ways it manifests itself but people wanting to 'start a discussion' from a position of bad faith are not helpful. That is why you will get push back

I think that maybe on some of these threads about Jewish issues then, I need to start ignoring people who make those bot like comments, because otherwise I end up spending more time defending myself and other groups, against ideas that most people don’t actually believe, which then makes my comments come across as being in bad faith? I think I’m quite sensitive to these comments after a bad experience I had in real life.

“I never once said Jews in the UK are responsible for anything Israel does. I'm unsure how you picked that up from what I said.”
But you did say that Netanyahu’s comments were making things unsafe for Jews in this country. You seemed to be saying that Netanyahu was to blame for the increase in anti semitism ?

No, what you need to do is read what people are actually writing. Not make assumptions and inferences. Not feel sorry for yourself because of how difficult you're finding it to not accidentally say things that are either offensive to Jews or antisemitic, and then get upset because people have taken offense. If you say offensive things, chances are that people will be offended. Some times you probably don't mean to cause offense but that doesn't mean you didn't.

So read what we're saying. Listen. And then do better.