Why aren’t the people protesting against Israel calling for Hamas to disarm and disband?

[LargeAmericano]

Surely that will force Israel to immediately stop the war?

They will not be able to continue if their aim of dismantling Hamas is achieved and the hostages are returned.

This is surely the best outcome for the Palestinian people?

This is hardly an unbiased account.

You;ll be hard-pressed to find an "unbiased" account in the current conflict but try this -
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/21/why-arab-states-wont-support-palestinians-qa-00142277

or this -

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-egypt-and-other-arab-countries-refuse-to-accept-palestinian-refugees-from-gaza/ar-AA1jk6RR

I'm not sure what you would accept as "unbiased" ?

So I can't see how there will be a palestine state?

So that's you and me both baffled.

All I can say is that it would have to be created with input from the various protagonists with regard to International Law.

Something that looked like it was trying to weigh differing views and perspectives rather than accept one uncritically would be a start

I'm still not sure what info you want but please free free to Google yourself. 🙂

Im aware of that, thanks ever so; what I was objecting to was the proferring of a biased article to another poster who had expressed an interest in understanding the facts. That’s not cricket.

Well, I'm afraid i can't help you any more.

I can only producer the articles that are available on the internet as I'm not a scholar of ME history.

I am grateful to @Tripeandonions for the links. I have tried to do my own research but hard to find unbiased sources as you say and all sources have their biases but the more different perspectives (from informed sources not people who get all their information from tik tok or msm) the better.

They weren’t accepted as legitimate democracy in 2007 either, or 2008, or 209. Their elections were just pissed on because the West didn’t get the outcome they wanted.

As for them taking control of schools, hospitals, infrastructure etc- it’s what the ruling political party do in every country. So why is it wrong when Hamas do it?

Honestly, if I was a Palestinian living in Gaza atm, and I was one of the hundreds and thousands of people who has lost a close family member, my home smashed to smithereens, my school reduced to rubble, my access to medicine and health care turned into a torture centre for innocent civilians- I would vote Hamas and do whatever I could to oppose and fight the Israeli regime. I think everyone on this thread would do the same.

To me voting Hamas is like voting for the Nazis they are just as evil. That is like saying you can see why the Germans voted for the Nazis because we were smashing their infrastructure- that's what happens in a war.

But I CAN see why people would vote for those who feel they are defending the things they care about. Is that not why anyone votes for any political party?

It isn’t necessary to be a scholar of anything to detect bias.

Are you going to get that deleted as well? 😂

Well of course they can go on supporting Hamas but that is leading to Gaza being destroyed (by Hamas themselves who have used the billions in aid they received to build weapons and destroy things and embed theselves in hospitals and schools). I can't say I understand that but Palestinians are taught to hate Jewish people from a young age which I haven't been.

Hamas 🤢

You can't understand why an oppressed people experiencing blockade and occupation might not universally be fans of the country primarily implementing that blockade and occupation?

My understanding is israel withdrew from gaza in around 2005, so how were they occupied? Why didn't the people in gaza use that opportunity to build a country (that is my understanding, may have it wrong, as I said I'm trying to learn more).

@Northernnature

The majority of countries consider Gaza to have been under occupation prior to and following the removal of Israeli settlements and forces from within the territory. After 2005, blockades began and then intensified following Hamas's takeover of the Gaza Strip. Pre-2023/24, Israel controlled all but one land crossing, airspace, maritime space, the population registry (a database of who lived there) and a no-go zone within the borders of the Gaza Strip. People entering the no-go zone, even children, would be targeted by snipers.

Goods in and out were controlled. Border checkpoints were locations of verbal and physical abuse and humiliation. Healthcare within the Gaza Strip was challenging as many medications and treatments were difficult to access - many people died waiting for permission from Israeli authorities to cross the border or for their medication to reach them.

Israeli weapons were still fired at Gaza, and there was a ground invasion in 2009. During largely peaceful protests in Gaza in 2018/19, over 200 people were killed by Israeli forces and hundreds were left disabled (snipers targeted limbs to leave people with amputations and lasting disabilities).

A UN investigation in 2019 concluded that, out of almost 500 cases of Palestinians in Gaza being killed by Israeli forces, two may have been justifiable. There were grounds to believe Israeli forces had also targeted healthcare professionals and journalists, as well as children. The current concerns about targeting of aid workers, healthcare professionals and media are consistent with this past behaviour.

One is a legitimate country the other is not. It is easier to investigate a legitimate country which is democratic. "The world" has not treated other countries this way when they have been attached by a non democratic group.

Generally speaking, occupation, mass killing of civilians, potentially committing war crimes, etc, all should be frowned upon, whoever is doing it.

And to release the hostages too.

A good question.

In the 1990s, the first suicide bombings were carried out by members of the militant Palestinian group Hamas. According to data from the University of Chicago, 114 such attacks, in which the assailant blows himself (or herself) up, have been carried out in Israel since 1994, resulting in the deaths of 721 people (including the perpetrators).

In 2007 Hamas controlled Gaza after open fighting with it's rival political group Fatah.
Smai Abu Zubri, spokesperson at the time for Iran-backed Hamas claimed it was a “second liberation of Gaza from the collaborators”. Hamas made clear it's avowed goals which were the destruction of the State of Israel.

The Israeli Prime Minister at the time, Ehud Olmert suggested that the West should give “serious consideration” to posting a peacekeeping force in Southern Gaza, to stop weapons reaching Hamas via Egypt.

This was not implemented.

In Dec 2008 Israel commenced Operation Cast Lead – a 3 week military campaign aimed at stopping rocket fire from Gaza.

In Nov 14 2012 Israel launches Operation Pillar of Defence, an eight-day military campaign sparked by an intense round of rocket fire from Gaza aimed at Israeli civilians.

In July 17 2014 Israel launched Operation Protective Edge, a military campaign that included a ground invasion aimed at destroying Hamas tunnels used to smuggle weapons into the coastal enclave and launch attacks against Israel.

So, the dismantling of all Israeli settlements in Gaza and the relocation of thousands of Israeli settlers did not bring an end to violence emerging from the coastal territory and aimed at Israeli population centres. (The Israelis even exhumed their dead and removed Jewish cemeteries)

The Israelis further argue that violence against Israeli civilians is not intended to bring about peaceful coexistence, citing as evidence Hamas’ longstanding refusal to recognize Israel’s legitimacy and right to exist.

In 2016, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu summed it up saying that terrorist attacks “don’t come because of [Palestinian] despair and the frustration over the inability to build. They come because of [Palestinian] despair and the frustration over inability to destroy.”

Yes I don't understand why the international community hasn't got more involved eg after October 7th. And alot of things I have read have said Palestinians have missed opportunities and turned down chances for a two state solution. I do think the idea of compromise is a western way of looking at things maybe?

@Tripeandonions

Here's evidence for you. And before you say well it's a biased news source etc; all of these quotes can be looked up.

www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel?amp