Page 30 | University students rising up against ties with Israel (title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

EasterIssland · 2024-04-26T16:06:26+00:00

Many university students are raising up against the ties their universities have with Israel. Students are asking for this agreements to stop I can see this is happening in USA which has been in the news quite a lot but I can also read news about Paris as well as UK. I really doubt much will change but I’m glad people are against these agreements. We can’t change what Israel / Hamas do. But we should be able to change what our governments / universities do.

empoleon · 08/05/2024 23:23

EasterIssland · 08/05/2024 23:13

Whose ? Sulaiman Ahmed
? I don’t get the same. The first video are settlers attacking a Palestinian woman for me

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https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1764986489778143383

That's what I see first, maybe because I'm not logged in.

https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1764986489778143383

Original poster

EasterIssland · 08/05/2024 23:29

empoleon · 08/05/2024 23:23

https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1764986489778143383

That's what I see first, maybe because I'm not logged in.

Show quote history

Oh ok it could be. I know who she’s. She’s double nationality(Brazilian - Spanish) and I know she got raped whilst in India

OP posts:

empoleon · 08/05/2024 23:34

EasterIssland · 08/05/2024 23:29

Oh ok it could be. I know who she’s. She’s double nationality(Brazilian - Spanish) and I know she got raped whilst in India

Show quote history

Yeah doesn't quite justify singing the praises of the Taliban though.

He's also quite the fan of Hamas. And Putin. And weirdly Andrew Tate. But that's par for the course with the xitter accoutns posted on here.

US2gether · 09/05/2024 07:58

TheKeenAmberHedgehog · 08/05/2024 09:47

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/the-bbc-is-hiding-the-toxic-truth-about-anti-israel-protest/

For the latest evidence of the BBC’s failure to take anti-Semitism seriously, look no further than the corporation’s reporting of the campus protests at Columbia and other American universities. It goes without saying that we all have the right to protest. But it is abundantly clear that what is taking place on these campuses is a great deal more toxic, ugly and racist. Violence, intimidation and threats against Jewish students and teachers have been a daily occurrence.
At Columbia, there appears to have been no attempt to hide the anti-Semitism at the protest sites. Captured on video, protesters screamed the following at two Jewish students outside the campus gates: “Never forget the 7th of October.” “That will happen not one more time, not five more times, not 10 … but ten thousand times.” “The 7th of October is going to be every day for you!” On American soil, at a place of learning, Jewish people faced threats of a massacre. The spectre of pogroms, long thought part of the history of Jewish people, not their present, had returned.
The same is true at other American universities. At UCLA, things got so bad that pro-Palestinian demonstrators created a checkpoint to stop Jewish students from entering campus. The denial of access to education on grounds of race should be condemned by us all, but many of the campus protesters are selective in their activism when it comes to human rights. For them, anti-Semitism does not count.
The scale of racism against Jews on campuses is such that Joe Biden felt forced to intervene. Warning of an alarming surge of anti-Semitism, he said: “Silence is complicity. Even in recent days, we’ve seen harassment and calls for violence against Jews. This blatant anti-Semitism is reprehensible and dangerous – and it has absolutely no place on college campuses, or anywhere in our country.”
Yet reading the BBC’s online reporting of the protests, you would often have little idea that racism against Jews is loud and proud and Jewish students and teachers are experiencing something truly horrendous.
A BBC News article first published on April 26, titled “What do pro-Palestinian student protesters at US universities want?”, speaks volumes through what it left out until it was apparently updated. This “explainer” did not make a single mention of anti-Semitism at the protests. The tone of the report was also instructive. Protesters were made to sound like young heroes, carrying forward the torch of the Occupy Wall Street movement and the anti-apartheid demonstrations of the 1980s. The bias – and lack of interest – in anti-Semitism could not have been clearer.
It is hard to understand how this is possible from a news organisation that claims to be impartial and repeatedly asserts that it takes anti-Semitism as seriously as any other form of racism.
The same is true of a BBC report on May 2 titled “Columbia University community ‘shattered’ after police raid”. The tone of the article is one of sympathy for the protesters. Issues as serious as whether the cafeteria will fully re-open are deemed worthy of careful reporting. Racism against Jews is not. Nor is the violence and law-breaking that led to the police decision to intervene.
If anyone believes that these are isolated failures, the BBC News live feed page on the US campus protests are revealing. On May 2, this page was updated 58 times over the course of more than 10 hours. The experience of racism by Jewish students was covered in just one post, 30 minutes before the page closed. Despite hours of detailed and continuous coverage, it appears that BBC News felt that anti-Semitism was just not that important.
There is a simple test one can apply to this coverage. Had the poisonous racism on display at these protests been directed at the black or Muslim community, would BBC reports make little or no reference to it? The answer would – quite rightly – be no. The racist abuse would be front and centre of the story. It would be treated with the due prominence and sensitivity it deserves. It would be headline news, at the very heart of the coverage.
Yet racism against Jews is deemed barely worthy of mention in these BBC reports, if at all. As Biden noted, silence is complicity when it comes to anti-Semitism. And again here, the BBC’s silence is an act of complicity. All this adds to the growing list of BBC failures on anti-Semitism and anti-Israel bias since the October 7 massacres. It is hard to imagine that the vast majority of members of Britain’s Jewish community will ever forget it.

Basically the BBC expose racism when directed at black people and ignore when directed at Jewish people.

I agree with this story, I've seen this too

Original poster

EasterIssland · 09/05/2024 15:17

50 public universities and 26 private ones from Spain have cut ties with Israel

OP posts:

Dulra · 09/05/2024 16:00

Well done Spain. They are also working closely with the Irish government to develop a clear plan on recognising the state of Palestine

RTE news : 'Clear plan' on recognising state of Palestine - Harris

www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0509/1448189-palestine/

MushMonster · 09/05/2024 23:03

David Cameron had made some noise about the recognition of a Palestine State earlier in the year.
I think it should be done indeed.

MushMonster · 09/05/2024 23:10

I agree with cutting ties regarding weapons, including private companies and university projects that may be used in weapons development.

But I am not so sure about cutting ties with all Israel Universities. Most of them, I think, will be civilians just studying and wanting to further their careers. What is the point of stopping funding, conferences, joined projects? It feels like punishing individuals for their current government actions.
Something I think universities should consider, actually, is providing grants for Palestinian students, as their universities have been mostly destroyed.

TextureSeeker · 09/05/2024 23:41

MushMonster · 09/05/2024 23:10

I agree with cutting ties regarding weapons, including private companies and university projects that may be used in weapons development.

But I am not so sure about cutting ties with all Israel Universities. Most of them, I think, will be civilians just studying and wanting to further their careers. What is the point of stopping funding, conferences, joined projects? It feels like punishing individuals for their current government actions.
Something I think universities should consider, actually, is providing grants for Palestinian students, as their universities have been mostly destroyed.

I know the Trinity College students were asking for fully funded places for Palestinian students for that reason, the college pledged some but I'm not sure how many.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/05/2024 00:03

MushMonster · 09/05/2024 23:10

I agree with cutting ties regarding weapons, including private companies and university projects that may be used in weapons development.

But I am not so sure about cutting ties with all Israel Universities. Most of them, I think, will be civilians just studying and wanting to further their careers. What is the point of stopping funding, conferences, joined projects? It feels like punishing individuals for their current government actions.
Something I think universities should consider, actually, is providing grants for Palestinian students, as their universities have been mostly destroyed.

I agree especially as there must be within them the very Israelis who want to work for justice and peace with Palestine. Those who are the opposite types to Ben-Givr and Co.

mids2019 · 10/05/2024 05:55

There was a protester from Leeds university on Radio 4 who presumably had been nominated spokesperson for their group who absolutely floundered in an interview.

She tried to justify the protest in very righteous terms in framing the Palestinians as an oppressed people wishing freedom but when presented with a direct question , 'should Israel exist?' , did not categorically say yes but attempted a poor politician type non answer, 'Jews should be safe".

I wonder if this student, presumably an intelligent young woman, realised the consequences of admitting on national radio that Israel should not exist as a state?
I think the interview had to be brought to a close as it was close to anti semitism being openly voiced on the Today program.

The student seemed absolutely blind sided by the question and appeared insulated by the temerity of an interviewer to ask such a question after her impassioned rant. It was then left to a government minister to basically say she needed to grow up and use her period at university to educate herself and be able to critically ananlyse the cause of any sort of conflict.

I think this exposes the anti semitism at the heart of many who participate in these protests in that a significant number do not wish Israel to exist or at least have no opinion on how a 2 state solution could work in practice and what in reality a 'free' Palestine would look like.

I really despair of these protestor represent the brightest and best of our country as judging from this interview the participants have little nuanced thinking or appreciation of broad political realities in the middle East which you would have hoped they could have learned.

DomPom47 · 10/05/2024 06:53

mids2019 · 10/05/2024 05:55

There was a protester from Leeds university on Radio 4 who presumably had been nominated spokesperson for their group who absolutely floundered in an interview.

She tried to justify the protest in very righteous terms in framing the Palestinians as an oppressed people wishing freedom but when presented with a direct question , 'should Israel exist?' , did not categorically say yes but attempted a poor politician type non answer, 'Jews should be safe".

I wonder if this student, presumably an intelligent young woman, realised the consequences of admitting on national radio that Israel should not exist as a state?
I think the interview had to be brought to a close as it was close to anti semitism being openly voiced on the Today program.

The student seemed absolutely blind sided by the question and appeared insulated by the temerity of an interviewer to ask such a question after her impassioned rant. It was then left to a government minister to basically say she needed to grow up and use her period at university to educate herself and be able to critically ananlyse the cause of any sort of conflict.

I think this exposes the anti semitism at the heart of many who participate in these protests in that a significant number do not wish Israel to exist or at least have no opinion on how a 2 state solution could work in practice and what in reality a 'free' Palestine would look like.

I really despair of these protestor represent the brightest and best of our country as judging from this interview the participants have little nuanced thinking or appreciation of broad political realities in the middle East which you would have hoped they could have learned.

You are given the example of one student and then saying the antisemitism of many with no back up points.

It is a fact that that the Israel government is killing thousands. It is a fact that many in the cabinet are focused on the destruction of Palestinian land. It is a fact that many in the cabinet again want as much Palestinian land as possible.

DomPom47 · 10/05/2024 06:56

MushMonster · 09/05/2024 23:03

David Cameron had made some noise about the recognition of a Palestine State earlier in the year.
I think it should be done indeed.

Recognition of Palestine state and the lack of consequence for the Israeli government and military’s actions cannot go hand in hand.
At times he talks a good talk but when it comes to actions British and USA does not care enough about Palestinian lives.

mids2019 · 10/05/2024 07:02

@DomPom47

presumably this student thought she could represent the protestors as whole? I completely recognise the scale of death and destruction in Gaza but I was picking on the one point she made about Israel; she did not recognise the right of Israel to scissor as a state. It is this form of view that can't be debatable, openly wishing Israel not to exist and by inference it's people displaced.

I think it was quite shocking that the woman in question thought she may not be asked such a question on the BBCs flagship current affairs program by an incisive interviewer and I think this is what a lot of protesters would come across badly in this style of interview. These are meant to be inquisitive broad minded people that can think about solutions to the middle East crisis without resort to simplistic sloganeering and thinking the non existence of Israel is going to wash with the British pub lic.

DomPom47 · 10/05/2024 07:07

mids2019 · 10/05/2024 07:02

@DomPom47

presumably this student thought she could represent the protestors as whole? I completely recognise the scale of death and destruction in Gaza but I was picking on the one point she made about Israel; she did not recognise the right of Israel to scissor as a state. It is this form of view that can't be debatable, openly wishing Israel not to exist and by inference it's people displaced.

I think it was quite shocking that the woman in question thought she may not be asked such a question on the BBCs flagship current affairs program by an incisive interviewer and I think this is what a lot of protesters would come across badly in this style of interview. These are meant to be inquisitive broad minded people that can think about solutions to the middle East crisis without resort to simplistic sloganeering and thinking the non existence of Israel is going to wash with the British pub lic.

I do understand your points but with the student we can make some legitimate excuse like perhaps they mean a government can’t exist if they are not respecting the rights of others and committing genocide - in light of the current leadership of Israel - leadership needs to be changed rather than Israel as a state disappearing.

I know people at Columbia and at UK universities (mostly London) who simply want an end to the murder of Palestinians. Students do not have media training etc but when you her Israeli politicians and members of the armed forces chanting destroy Rafah or laughing about the number of deaths it makes any possibility of peace look totally impossible.

Hélène79 · 10/05/2024 07:11

DomPom47 · 10/05/2024 06:53

You are given the example of one student and then saying the antisemitism of many with no back up points.

It is a fact that that the Israel government is killing thousands. It is a fact that many in the cabinet are focused on the destruction of Palestinian land. It is a fact that many in the cabinet again want as much Palestinian land as possible.

Show quote history

This student spoke in soundbites and slogans, which parroted verbatim many other students who have been interviewed on these protests. No substance or evidence of knowledge when questioned, just reading off a script. She was representative. Look what happened with a contingent of the NUS in the UK this week - totally naive to suggest this is just "one student".

I do understand your points but with the student we can make some legitimate excuse

A "legitimate excuse"?? Would you "excuse" racism about other groups?

DomPom47 · 10/05/2024 07:23

Hélène79 · 10/05/2024 07:11

This student spoke in soundbites and slogans, which parroted verbatim many other students who have been interviewed on these protests. No substance or evidence of knowledge when questioned, just reading off a script. She was representative. Look what happened with a contingent of the NUS in the UK this week - totally naive to suggest this is just "one student".

I do understand your points but with the student we can make some legitimate excuse

A "legitimate excuse"?? Would you "excuse" racism about other groups?

Show quote history

I m going to keep my stance on the students based on what I have seen and heard from students on the ground in London universities and also from across the pond from
Columbia. I can then back this up with the hundred of young people I have spoken to during the many Saturday marches I have attended. From these marches I have spoken to literally hundred of people from all ages, races, ethnicities, religions and never once did I hear anything on the destruction of Israel - and at my age and with my life experience I am gobby enough and confident enough to call anyone up on something that I think is wrong and not appropriate and challenge them in an assertive way. Obviously there may have been a few there who were that I could not have seen or heard but from those I spoke to on multiple Saturdays it was all about one thing bringing an end to the destruction of lives.

Legitimate in that they were referencing the Israeli government and ministers and their rhetoric and actions which needs to be stopped rather than the country of Israel. These students are using the language of apartheid and human rights, I do not accept that they are racist.

greenlettuce · 10/05/2024 07:53

I think there is a lot of naivety as far as the protesters are concerned. They are allowed to protest to a degree but some of their language shows that they really do not understand the complexity of the situation.

MushMonster · 10/05/2024 08:00

The student representative should have known better and hopefully she will come to understand this. It is rather sad that they chose her to speak for them all and I hope, and think, the vast majority of students would have answered that question with a YES, of course.
I have seen some other students refusing to condemn Hamas, not supporting, but refusing to condemn. I do not see a point on this at all. And, actually, I think it puts people that do want to see an end to the conflict off criticising Israel's government stance and actions.

MushMonster · 10/05/2024 08:11

DomPom47 · 10/05/2024 06:56

Recognition of Palestine state and the lack of consequence for the Israeli government and military’s actions cannot go hand in hand.
At times he talks a good talk but when it comes to actions British and USA does not care enough about Palestinian lives.

Show quote history

I know, he is not folllowing suit with US holding back on heavy offensive weapons deliveries, at least as of yet.
This conflict just changes from one day to next. What I want to hear is how that ceasefire negotiations are going. But there is not much said about it at present.

Tripeandonions · 10/05/2024 08:17

User2460177 · 26/04/2024 19:00

These “protests” have been responsible for some awful antisemitism and attacks on Jewish students and staff. It’s reminiscent of Nazi germany.

Unfortunately these protests are interfering with some students who go to university to study or exercise their right to peaceful protest.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/06/uk-university-protests-pro-palestinian-oxford-cambridge/

Israeli flagged ripped from hands of Jewish student at Cambridge pro-Palestine protest - follow live

A Jewish student had an Israel flag ripped from his hands as he launched a counter-protest at a pro-Palestinian rally at Cambridge University.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/06/uk-university-protests-pro-palestinian-oxford-cambridge

Tripeandonions · 10/05/2024 08:34

EasterIssland · 26/04/2024 18:58

Little bit patronising isn’t it? And dismissing isn’t it ?

Show quote history

Er, no I don't think so.

Some people are blinkered when it comes to to Israel/Hamas conflict.

The war in Yemen has killed at least 10,000 people and there have been allegations of War Crimes against the UAE.

Yet I don't see any students protesting about Saudi funding for some British Universities.

https://www.ft.com/content/b276dcc0-0893-11e2-b37e-00144feabdc0

https://www.ft.com/content/fa6d15a4-f6ed-11e8-af46-2022a0b02a6c

Saudis donate most to UK universities

https://www.ft.com/content/b276dcc0-0893-11e2-b37e-00144feabdc0

US2gether · 10/05/2024 08:50

mids2019 · 10/05/2024 05:55

There was a protester from Leeds university on Radio 4 who presumably had been nominated spokesperson for their group who absolutely floundered in an interview.

She tried to justify the protest in very righteous terms in framing the Palestinians as an oppressed people wishing freedom but when presented with a direct question , 'should Israel exist?' , did not categorically say yes but attempted a poor politician type non answer, 'Jews should be safe".

I wonder if this student, presumably an intelligent young woman, realised the consequences of admitting on national radio that Israel should not exist as a state?
I think the interview had to be brought to a close as it was close to anti semitism being openly voiced on the Today program.

The student seemed absolutely blind sided by the question and appeared insulated by the temerity of an interviewer to ask such a question after her impassioned rant. It was then left to a government minister to basically say she needed to grow up and use her period at university to educate herself and be able to critically ananlyse the cause of any sort of conflict.

I think this exposes the anti semitism at the heart of many who participate in these protests in that a significant number do not wish Israel to exist or at least have no opinion on how a 2 state solution could work in practice and what in reality a 'free' Palestine would look like.

I really despair of these protestor represent the brightest and best of our country as judging from this interview the participants have little nuanced thinking or appreciation of broad political realities in the middle East which you would have hoped they could have learned.

This. Sadly. Soundbites rather than answers.

ConnieCounter · 10/05/2024 08:55

Interesting how some of the posters must concerned about antisemitism are the same ones who have had their Islamaphobic posts deleted. No consistency there.

US2gether · 10/05/2024 09:04

ConnieCounter · 10/05/2024 08:55

Interesting how some of the posters must concerned about antisemitism are the same ones who have had their Islamaphobic posts deleted. No consistency there.

I've not.

Anti semitism is wrong anti Islam is wrong, anti black is wrong, should I continue my list to ensure I'm not accussed of any other wrongs?

I've not had posts deleted for what you imply.

Some of the protesters and students are clearly anti semitic and flounder. That student couldn't bring herself to acknowledge that Israel has the right to exist. That's sad and people see and hear that.