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Conflict in the Middle East

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Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

673 replies

mids2019 · 13/04/2024 21:05

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

Met arrest nine as Palestine and Israel protesters march in London

The Met Police has today arrested nine people as thousands of pro-Palestine activists and Israel supporting counter protesters marched through London amid the ongoing conflict in Gaza.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

OP posts:
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24
AgnesWickfield · 22/04/2024 15:59

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 15:24

@PeasfullPerson Yes, the longer and unedited footage does present a different picture. If the officer had allowed one man with his security and film crew to push through the middle of a large march, others might well have followed and it would have been chaos. I think a fuller picture is emerging now. We have to look at things with a critical eye these days. I still have not seen footage of people shouting names at Mr Falter, though it's been stated that happened. The reference to visible Jewishness is still unacceptable of course.

There is footage of people shouting abuse at him, and of a man telling him he will follow him wherever he goes and there's nothing he or the police can do about it. It's on the CAA twitter feed. Reposted on various news outlets.

Comedycook · 22/04/2024 16:00

AgnesWickfield · 22/04/2024 15:59

There is footage of people shouting abuse at him, and of a man telling him he will follow him wherever he goes and there's nothing he or the police can do about it. It's on the CAA twitter feed. Reposted on various news outlets.

Yes I've seen all of that.

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 16:04

@AgnesWickfield I have seen footage of people shouting very offensive things, but I could not see Mr Falter there. I did see footage of a man saying they would follow him and film him at the march, which was unpleasant, but was the group with Mr Falter were also following and filming people so I don't know.

PeasfullPerson · 22/04/2024 16:08

Perhaps people could be encouraged to show support for the public in Gaza and the hostages from Israel with their placards?

I feel like people may be more easily able to agree that both of these groups are victims who didn’t deserve what happened to them, and that it seems less like politically motivated blame shifting.

PeasfullPerson · 22/04/2024 16:15

When people are asked to condemn Hamas, because of the behaviour of the Israeli government and the IDF, and our own government, and because many people were unfairly and incorrectly labelled as dangerous antisemitic terrorist supporters, it is in my opinion viewed as an unwelcome attempt to yet again change the narrative, and not a request that is done in good faith.

staffofone · 22/04/2024 16:16

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 16:04

@AgnesWickfield I have seen footage of people shouting very offensive things, but I could not see Mr Falter there. I did see footage of a man saying they would follow him and film him at the march, which was unpleasant, but was the group with Mr Falter were also following and filming people so I don't know.

Wow, those are some excuses..

AgnesWickfield · 22/04/2024 16:17

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 16:04

@AgnesWickfield I have seen footage of people shouting very offensive things, but I could not see Mr Falter there. I did see footage of a man saying they would follow him and film him at the march, which was unpleasant, but was the group with Mr Falter were also following and filming people so I don't know.

Hmm, I see how this is going.

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 16:18

PeasfullPerson · 22/04/2024 16:15

When people are asked to condemn Hamas, because of the behaviour of the Israeli government and the IDF, and our own government, and because many people were unfairly and incorrectly labelled as dangerous antisemitic terrorist supporters, it is in my opinion viewed as an unwelcome attempt to yet again change the narrative, and not a request that is done in good faith.

This.

RetroDesigned · 22/04/2024 16:18

PeasfullPerson · 22/04/2024 16:08

Perhaps people could be encouraged to show support for the public in Gaza and the hostages from Israel with their placards?

I feel like people may be more easily able to agree that both of these groups are victims who didn’t deserve what happened to them, and that it seems less like politically motivated blame shifting.

People have been asking for that for 6 months, but unfortunately it falls on deaf ears. If the protests had started with a combined " ceasefire ", " release the hostages " message, they wouldn't have become such a contentious, polarising issue. Instead, we are where we are now, with an increasingly divided society where it's somehow become acceptable to show anti Semitic messages/ behaviours in public spaces, and people scared to cross the street because of their faith.

Auvergne63 · 22/04/2024 16:19

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 15:24

@PeasfullPerson Yes, the longer and unedited footage does present a different picture. If the officer had allowed one man with his security and film crew to push through the middle of a large march, others might well have followed and it would have been chaos. I think a fuller picture is emerging now. We have to look at things with a critical eye these days. I still have not seen footage of people shouting names at Mr Falter, though it's been stated that happened. The reference to visible Jewishness is still unacceptable of course.

What I don't understand why would he go, as he stated, for a stroll with a camera crew and , by chance ( really?), come across a march and then decide he wanted to go trough the crowd to reach the other side? Just why?
I heard him also stating that a person of colour wouldn't have received the same treatment by the police if he had been trying to do this when an EDL march was on.
I have to say my husband (West Indian) nearly spat out his tea when he heard him too!
By the way ,I do not agree with what the policeman said, regarding him being obviously Jewish but I question what motivated this man.

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 16:20

@staffofone The truth matters, especially when police officers may lose their jobs. One should be fair and impartial, not swayed when we don't have the full story.

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 16:24

I wonder how many people posting have actually made an effort to go to a protest? Or start their own that shows solidarity to the hostages and the civilians in Gaza?

stormy4319trevor · 22/04/2024 16:25

@Auvergne63 Initially I thought he should have been able to cross the street wherever he wanted. However, the officer stated that many other people had to go around, so it was not that only he was asked to detour. If Mr Falter was allowed to cross then the officer would have to allow everyone to push their way through the march, 'against the flow' of people, as he put it. I imagine this would be a recipe for chaos.

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 16:26

Talking an alternative route is common sense, regardless of what the protest is.

Scirocco · 22/04/2024 16:30

noblegiraffe · 22/04/2024 15:12

If people want to attend a march or event and carry a sign or shout a chant about Hamas's crimes, they can

If anyone feels unwelcome or anxious, they should speak with an event steward, and if anyone is threatened or attacked, they should report that to the police.

The problem with that, @Scirocco is the Iranian guy carried a sign saying Hamas are terrorists and when he was attacked the police arrested him instead of his attackers.

So it sounds good in principle, but in practice it hasn’t worked.

The people who want these peace marches to be free of antisemites and Hamas supporters are being let down.

It does work in practice and has done in a lot of places. The London organisers and the Met have, as I've said before, let people down by not managing the challenges of large-scale protests more effectively. There's a lot of stuff happening outside of London, it just doesn't get the headlines in the London-centric media.

RetroDesigned · 22/04/2024 16:34

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 16:24

I wonder how many people posting have actually made an effort to go to a protest? Or start their own that shows solidarity to the hostages and the civilians in Gaza?

Seems like you want to continue the polarisation and keep the two messages apart. Why is that? You want the release of the hostages too, no? Your first question can be explained by your second.

KestrelMoon · 22/04/2024 17:22

Superfoodie123 · 22/04/2024 12:36

Of course it's not done and definitely won't be done until all Palestinians are either dead or displaced. I wonder what will happen to the land that all their homes were built on? #settlements

Probably.
Tel Aviv (mother city) was founded in 1909 on the ruins of Tel Qasile, a Palestinian city. The Tel Aviv University campus was built on ruins of a Palestinian town, Al-Shaykh Muwannis, which was ‘depopulated’ in March 1948 by the Haganah. The Haganah was a paramilitary proto-IDF as it was founded in 1920, but by 1948, its units were incorporated into the new Israeli State’s IDF.

The history of how this happened, has echoes in what is currently happening in the West Bank:

”On 7 March, the Haganah's Alexandroni Brigade imposed a 'quarantine' on the village by closing off all access roads to it and the two smaller satellite villages of Jalil al Shamaliyya and Jalil al Qibliya and may even have occupied houses on the edge of the village.[14] The underground Stern Gang(LHI) maintained one of its encampments in the village,[24] and, five days later, on 12 March, militants from either the Irgun or Lehi groups kidnapped five village notables.[23][25] The Jewish Intelligence Services noted that
"many of the villagers ... began fleeing following the abduction of the notables of Sheikh Muwannis. The Arab learned that it was not enough to reach an agreement with the Haganah and that there were 'other Jews' of whom to beware, and possibly to be aware of more than the Haganah, which had not control over them."[25]
The villagers then protested that Jewish forces in the area were subjecting them to intimidation, looting and shooting at them randomly.[23] Though the notables were turned over to the Haganah on the 23 March and returned to Shaykh Muwannis, most of the villagers there and in other villages north of the Yarkon River continued to leave, as their confidence had been "mortally undermined".[14] Tawfiq Abu Kishk threw a large parting 'banquet' for the remaining villagers and their Jewish friends on the 28 March 1948.[14] After their departure, the village lands were promptly allocated for Jewish use by the Yishuv leaders,[14] and were ultimately incorporated into the municipality of Tel Aviv.[18]
In the days following, the Abu Kishk leaders attributed their abandonment of the village to: "a) the [Haganah] roadblocks ... b) the [Haganah] limitations on movement by foot, c) the theft [by Jews?] of vehicles, and d) the last kidnapping of Sheikh Muwannis men by the LHI." The villagers of Shaykh Muwannis became refugees, with the majority taking up residence in Qalqilya and Tulkarem.”

KestrelMoon · 22/04/2024 17:27

RetroDesigned · 22/04/2024 16:34

Seems like you want to continue the polarisation and keep the two messages apart. Why is that? You want the release of the hostages too, no? Your first question can be explained by your second.

I don’t think the two messages of “ceasefire now” and “release the hostages” have been polarised apart because you need a ceasefire to release the hostages. “Ceasefire Now” is the umbrella over all the other worthy messages.

Ceasefire means hostages can be released, humanitarian aid can be distributed, dying of civilians can be stopped, peace and stability can be negotiated, Hamas can be removed from government, Bibi can attend his many criminal trials for corruption and likely also removed from government.. so imho the message of “ceasefire now” includes all these other messages.

RetroDesigned · 22/04/2024 17:57

KestrelMoon · 22/04/2024 17:27

I don’t think the two messages of “ceasefire now” and “release the hostages” have been polarised apart because you need a ceasefire to release the hostages. “Ceasefire Now” is the umbrella over all the other worthy messages.

Ceasefire means hostages can be released, humanitarian aid can be distributed, dying of civilians can be stopped, peace and stability can be negotiated, Hamas can be removed from government, Bibi can attend his many criminal trials for corruption and likely also removed from government.. so imho the message of “ceasefire now” includes all these other messages.

I appreciate your interpretation, although my question was in response to @Mags48 post where she questioned why there wasn't a second separate protest group for demanding the release of hostages. It seems like your understanding of what the protests are about, differs somewhat from others. Although, as I'm sure you agree, some placards demanding the hostages release and the condemnation of Hamas would be welcomed, amidst the other messages on display.

Auvergne63 · 22/04/2024 18:09

Mr Gideon Falter is a member of the Kahanist party.
If you are not aware of what they believe in, please read this article ( I am aware that it is dated 2019)
AIPAC to boycott 'racist and reprehensible' Kahanist party wooed by Netanyahu | The Times of Israel

KestrelMoon · 22/04/2024 18:12

RetroDesigned · 22/04/2024 17:57

I appreciate your interpretation, although my question was in response to @Mags48 post where she questioned why there wasn't a second separate protest group for demanding the release of hostages. It seems like your understanding of what the protests are about, differs somewhat from others. Although, as I'm sure you agree, some placards demanding the hostages release and the condemnation of Hamas would be welcomed, amidst the other messages on display.

Yes we are in agreement.

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 18:20

@RetroDesigned my question about the protesting relates to some posters on this board demanding to know why I haven’t made a sign to say I condemn Hamas / release the hostages. It’s been consistently suggested that the lack of such signs must imply I am against both - which is absolutely ridiculous. Of course the hostages need to be released and be allowed to return to their homes and loved ones. I’ve been condemning Hamas since 7/10.

But I would like to know if these posters who are telling me what to do on the protests have made an effort to attend any protest themselves. It’s all very good typing on a keyboard about what I should do but what are you doing?

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 18:24

Auvergne63 · 22/04/2024 18:09

Mr Gideon Falter is a member of the Kahanist party.
If you are not aware of what they believe in, please read this article ( I am aware that it is dated 2019)
AIPAC to boycott 'racist and reprehensible' Kahanist party wooed by Netanyahu | The Times of Israel

Is there a link to show he is a member of this extremist group as I can’t find it.

StormyAprilSkies · 22/04/2024 18:36

Comedycook · 22/04/2024 09:28

I think a lot of people on this board are living in their heads so much by this point that they genuinely believe they hold so much power that they can actually change things in the ME.

Yes they do. Blocking families from mcdonalds or shopping or sightseeing does nothing at all. Apart from polarise the issue and annoy people. Just like Stop Oil. 🙄

Then they screech at others with a different view. It's tedious. 🙄

Mags48 · 22/04/2024 18:38

@StormyAprilSkies the irony

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