Israel supporting counter marches in London - about time

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304895/Met-Police-arrest-Palestine-Israel-march-London-protest-Gaza.html

I think in a democracy this is absolutely necessary. Obviously policing will be important but it is good to see that in terms of street protest this is not a come sided issue.

I wonder how many are going to be arrested losing their rag seeing Israeli flags an masse after getting themselves riled up calling for a ceasefire.....

Yes - we are not the victims here - I agree.
The real victims are being slaughtered in Gaza or lying as hostages in dire hopeless circumstances.
Let’s unite in honour of the real victims and condemn the people who caused their pain - The Israeli government and Hamas.

I wonder how many hostages are left now. It is as if they’ve been forgotten.

I know .. So much suffering it’s hard to process it all .

And thank you so much for taking my post in the spirit in which it was intended. I appreciate it.

I don't think this is quite the point

The equivalent of asking random Jewish people to denounce the actions of the Israeli government is asking random Muslims to denounce hamas....with no context

Asking protesters on any side is a totally different thing because you're asking the question based on their actions (ie protesting)rather than based on their race/religion.

London. The UK. The huge marches for Gaza, the hassling people in mcdonalds, in the streets, the anti semitism. Talking about London. Replying to the comment Replying to the comment etc etc etc UK.

Yep. Protesters not race or culture

They have been forgotten.

Now your talking rubbish.

Stamping feet, marching, hassling people shopping, goi g into McDonalds, preventing people going about their business, costing millions which coukd be spent on something useful, waving banners in the UK for one selective conflict whilst ignoring many more deaths in other conflicts, starvation etc is selective. It hasn't helped, its polarised more.

No one telling you to shut up its just that bot everyone agrees with you. So what, people have different views.

Exactly. It turns some people off and causes division. I'd have more respect if there were banners calling for hostages release but anyone doing that gets assaulted. That poor Iranian guy. When some of the marches then chantvfor the Houthis you know it's a Israel thing rather than a prevention of any genocide, any starvation, any conflict.

Views differ.

I thought it was relevant. Post after post insinuating that protesters are hostile because they aren't carrying signs that they approve of because they are only condemning the people committing the genocide that is taking place right now.

Too scared. It doesn't go down well to condemn hamas on marches. The odd people that do get attacked.

I thought that particular man was in the protest? I read that he was there for hours was that not the case?

In mn, not long after 7-10 people kept being requested to say if they supported Hamas and what Hamas had done on 7-10. If someone didn’t reply then they were accused of being Hamas sympathisers. It reached a point that many of us if we wanted to denounce what Israel was doing we had to clearly specify that we condemned Hamas actions.

I totally understand why that would be annoying but if you ( as protesters collectively) want everyone else to take is as obvious that you ( collectively) are not Hamas supporters then maybe you could offer assurances about the safety of anyone on the protest carrying a placard condemning Hamas ?

@Superfoodie123

Turn on the news, all the media outlets are condemning hamas. Unless you've been under a rock every one interviewed gets asked to condemn hamas. There are 35,000 dead in palestine now and whomever alive is on their way as they're being starved terrorised and no water. People are done with the hamas thing now!

Yes all the media outlets have condemned Hamas but there is still an absence of protesters doing the same. Yes interviewees get asked to condemn Hamas which they either do or dodge the question.

There was a peace proposal by Egypt for Hamas to leave Gaza and release the hostages in return for a full ceasefire. Israel's stated aim whether you believe it or not is the removal of Hamas. Hostages are still being held by Hamas.

So no the "Hamas thing" is still very much a major issue and most definitely not "done".

"The real victims are being slaughtered in Gaza or lying as hostages in dire hopeless circumstances.
Let’s unite in honour of the real victims and condemn the people who caused their pain - The Israeli government and Hamas."

I completely agree and it's heartbreakingly sad that this important point is lost in the rush to score points over the other side.

Of course it's not done and definitely won't be done until all Palestinians are either dead or displaced. I wonder what will happen to the land that all their homes were built on? #settlements

It always goes this way. If posters don’t perfomatively denounce the Israeli government at the start of every single post they make expressing concern about antisemitism or whatever, they’ll be accused of supporting the murder of children. Like clockwork.

Exactly what happens with people who criticise the Israeli government. Esp in Nov near the start of all this. They were expected to add ‘I do not support Hamas’ at the end of every comment otherwise they were accused of supporting the 7/10 massacre.

Both accusations are equally unfair and tiresome and need to stop.

There are several reasons why you might not see many signs specifically condemning Hamas. Eg:

When people are organising an event or a demonstration, one thing to consider is "What is this specific event's specific goal/hope?" - it's then common to encourage people to focus on that goal in their signs, speeches, slogans, etc. If an event's primary objective is, for example, to say that protesters do not agree with a government selling arms to a particular country or military force, then that's the thing people will be encouraged to reference in their signs etc. Staying on-topic to present a focused message is a common approach to protests, otherwise you just end up with a lot of people with individual things they're angry about, and everyone's message gets diluted.

Hamas aren't being funded, armed or supported by the UK government. The UK government has extremely limited influence on them, or direct complicity in their actions. What would be achieved by telling the UK government that people don't like what Hamas did or are doing? Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation, there are sanctions in place. The work being undertaken to tackle Hamas's more insidious influences and to reduce the risks of radicalisation is taking place in a different way, in settings where it's more effective - targeted interventions, inter-faith work, talks aimed at vulnerable groups, etc.

If people want to attend a march or event and carry a sign or shout a chant about Hamas's crimes, they can. If someone turned up to an event and said "this is what I want to express today", that's fine. The same principles of freedom of speech and rules about hate speech apply to everyone. If it were their first time, or if they felt apprehensive, we could try to support someone to feel safe, and consider where in the event they might feel most supported (eg if someone has children with them, they might want to walk or sit with other people with children).

If anyone feels unwelcome or anxious, they should speak with an event steward, and if anyone is threatened or attacked, they should report that to the police.

I’ve seen several posters on here making sweeping allegations that the hundreds of thousands of people who attend protests support Hamas. I find that revolting and in very bad faith.

Just seen this update. Looks like an individual counter march might have been taking place in the middle of the Palestinian one.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/22/initial-story-about-openly-jewish-incident-not-full-picture-says-ex-senior-met-officer

Have any Jewish people been assaulted on these marches?
Watched the short video, police office talks about the marchers attacking Gideon. Has this happened to anyone?
Apparently GF has said he will keep attending these marches, as he has every right to do. I hope he's is welcomed in and treated with the upmost kindness. After all, he personally isn't bombing Gaza, killing all those people, even if he is 100% in support of the bombing.

If people want to attend a march or event and carry a sign or shout a chant about Hamas's crimes, they can

If anyone feels unwelcome or anxious, they should speak with an event steward, and if anyone is threatened or attacked, they should report that to the police.

The problem with that, @Scirocco is the Iranian guy carried a sign saying Hamas are terrorists and when he was attacked the police arrested him instead of his attackers.

So it sounds good in principle, but in practice it hasn’t worked.

The people who want these peace marches to be free of antisemites and Hamas supporters are being let down.

@PeasfullPerson Yes, the longer and unedited footage does present a different picture. If the officer had allowed one man with his security and film crew to push through the middle of a large march, others might well have followed and it would have been chaos. I think a fuller picture is emerging now. We have to look at things with a critical eye these days. I still have not seen footage of people shouting names at Mr Falter, though it's been stated that happened. The reference to visible Jewishness is still unacceptable of course.

Yep