Q for British Muslims

[Muthaofcats]

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/2024/04/08/only-one-in-four-british-muslims-believe-hamas-committed-murder-and-rape-in-israel-on-october-7th/

I was really curious (and shocked) to read news reports of the recent research canvassing the views of British Muslims in this country, it covers things like support for Hamas and anti semitism, but also extends to views on women’s roles in British society and subjects like homophobia too.

These views are quite at odds with public sentiment and our law and social policy generally, so I was quite shocked by them and what they mean for social cohesion and education in this country.

I am very conscious of the limitations of any study like this, and also that there is no one ‘Muslim’ identity, but would love to hear from Muslim women on here to see what you made of these reports / the findings ?

Do they broadly reflect your views or that of your community ?

If so, how does that impact on your life day to day and do you see a way that such values can peacefully coexist alongside those who do not share the same view point as you?

I am asking this out of genuine curiosity and in good faith, I am inviting respectful discourse only.

I do not want any hateful or racist language about ANY group in this thread please.

I'd say recognised or agreed with the statement, rather than admit (admit makes it sound a bit like it's being taken as a confession of guilt)...?

In relation to that question in the survey, it's a very basic polling error to ask as question that has two parts included in the same question, because people might have questions about one part but not the other, which then skews the overall response. It would have been a more robust approach to ask separate questions about killing and sexual violence, which would then give a clearer overall picture of respondents' views.

"Oh my god these nasty uneducated muslims"
It's been a while but how I missed an Islamophobic thread, based on so called 'research' from a right wing organisation. Just in time for Eid as well. Bravo.

@ItsRainingTacos79 , I can’t recall; was there widespread condemnation from the Muslim community? A ‘Not in my name ‘ moment?

@changefromhr come over to our dedicated board - we're having radical and uncivilised discussions about wrapping children's presents and recipes!

Thank you for pointing that out. That would be a more accurate and nuanced way to put it.

The UK has a political arrangement and governance structure literally requiring Christian Clergy of a particular denomination to be appointed to it. It requires every state funded school to hold a daily act of collective (broadly) Christian worship. The assumed default oath in Court is to swear on a (Protestant) Bible unless the witness/defendant chooses something else. The Monarch takes part in a Christian religious ceremony and rites in order to become monarch. Christian organisations are very active both in matters of poverty and more specifically in terms of women's reproductive health. When there are a bunch of Christians of whatever variety accosting, praying at or intimidating just by intruding on the personal space and staring at women attending clinics for the termination of pregnancy, the fitting of longterm birth control or sterilisation or repeatedly campaigning to reduce the gestation at which a woman can make the decision that is right for her regarding pregnancy or being part of the upper house to argue for or against passing those changes, they don't exactly come across as keeping their spiritual beliefs particularly private, either.

Yes there were many condemnation from different organisations / councils. However with your question, which community do you mean? There's not one big homogenous Muslim community with a spokesman just as there isn't one homogenous Christian community. We don't expect CoE members to come out and condemn the actions of a Pentecostal Christian for example.

But to be clear, isn’t this thread and the questionnaire about how things are in the U.K

Someone tried to bring up that MENA countries maintain separation of church and state … which is pretty ridiculous when everything in most MENA countries (Turkey is a real outlier here) must conform to Islamic values. Does it really matter if a literal Imam is not part of government when you can still be executed for blasphemy?

This is not at all my intention, and I made very clear I’m not looking for any hatred or racism of any kind; I wanted to hear from people to give their thoughts on the reports, including proper discussion about the validity of the study which has been the focus of most responses. It is not Islamophobic to be curious about people’s view points and invite a counter or challenge to these reports. It’s the reason I was keen to hear from people rather than just take the news story at face value.

I don't think it helps to understand why so many take a particular position because: a) the study is possibly flawed, b) the study is related to a biased agenda, c) it represents a tiny portion of the UK rather than many. The danger with posting such a survey in the CME board is that you demonise Muslims and therefore Palestinians (who are largely Muslim), in the eyes of those who read it. Basically you present the argument that Muslims are savage, backwards people, therefore Palestinians are, therefore they do not deserve our sympathy. I don't suppose this to be your intention, but I'm concerned that this study can only incite prejudice against a group of people and indifference to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

@ScrollingLeavesin relation to your other post, I love how our faiths' accounts of the lives of Jesus (peace be upon him) and Mary (peace be upon her) can give such detail and depth to them both - there are differences in the accounts, yes, but what shines through in both faiths is how inspirational and beloved they are.

This. It's also conflating British people's support for Palestinians with support for Hamas.

I agree with @stormy4319trevor that the timing and context of the thread is perhaps not the most sensitive. If @Muthaofcats you'd be interested, I'm happy to share my own opinions on some of the questions - I anticipate I'll get a pile on from some of the usual characters, but that's not new.

Because the study looks at attitudes to the 7th October attacks.

@1dayatatime I think it covers other topics and appears to be framed to give a negative overall picture of Muslim culture. A serious look at those attitudes to Oct 7th would not concern itself with preferences for religious holidays, ideas around sacred images etc. It is quite plainly a dog whistle to me.

Several posts later this is still the standout post with very few wishing to discuss the actual findings.

Here's the full poll results. Make of it what you will. I find it very interesting though that only certain questions also include the views of the general public or that those results didn't make the headlines.

henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HJS-Deck-200324-Final.pdf

Haven't you ever taken a survey where the client is clearly wanting a particular outcome? They're not worth shit in terms of data (my particular specialism these days, with a side order of legal compliance).

This is no better statistically speaking than the crap that comes out of local government/politics;

1. Do you agree that the rule of law and order is important? Y/N/DN
2. Do you agree with (opposite party's) proposals to reduce funding of the Police? Y/N/DN
3. Are you concerned about the increase in litter that will happen if (non existent) plans to reduce refuse collections in your neighbourhood go ahead? Y/N/DK

And then the results are used for political gain or to then say 'everybody agreed with the £380/month council tax we've just set'.

It's what in common parlance can be termed a Trap.

British muslims were more likely to vote Labour. Interesting that. Not a good headline though?

5% of British Muslims think education is the most important issue in the next GE. 3% of Brits (general public) think education is the most important issue in the next GE.

16% of the (great?!?) general public also wanted to make it illegal to show a picture of prophet Mohammad , and they have no skin in the game.

26% of British muslims want the UK to have no official religion compared to 25% of the general public.

Aren't statistics great?

19% of the general public want to end Christianity's traditional role by removing the church of England as the established church of the nation , compared to only 14% of British Muslims.

Did this stuff make it into the articles?

DH feels the same way & I'm baffled that he thinks it's fake news about the rapes on 7th October. He's very left wing & I think that it's been portrayed as something that was exaggerated & at times untrue & IDF press machine making stuff up. I tried to explain that Hamas released the footage showing the attacks (& not IDF) but in his head it's old news now due to the retaliation.

I agree the retaliation has been awful. But it doesn't mean the 7th October never happened.

I think if you look at people like Jeremy Corbyn, Owen Jones etc they have minimised the 7th October events.