Q for British Muslims

[Muthaofcats]

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/2024/04/08/only-one-in-four-british-muslims-believe-hamas-committed-murder-and-rape-in-israel-on-october-7th/

I was really curious (and shocked) to read news reports of the recent research canvassing the views of British Muslims in this country, it covers things like support for Hamas and anti semitism, but also extends to views on women’s roles in British society and subjects like homophobia too.

These views are quite at odds with public sentiment and our law and social policy generally, so I was quite shocked by them and what they mean for social cohesion and education in this country.

I am very conscious of the limitations of any study like this, and also that there is no one ‘Muslim’ identity, but would love to hear from Muslim women on here to see what you made of these reports / the findings ?

Do they broadly reflect your views or that of your community ?

If so, how does that impact on your life day to day and do you see a way that such values can peacefully coexist alongside those who do not share the same view point as you?

I am asking this out of genuine curiosity and in good faith, I am inviting respectful discourse only.

I do not want any hateful or racist language about ANY group in this thread please.

But that doesn't make good headlines in an election year... Good old fashioned targeting of minorities does though. Sigh.

Where are you seeing that? I can't find it on the poll results.

Absolutely. I hope it was clear that I meant the ‘good’ are not really necessarily good at all!

I think you also have to look at who commissioned the survey as well- this will reflect what findings are highlighted and how they are spun.

A quick look at Wikipedia tells us that this is a right wing UK based think tank which has previously been criticised for being anti Islamic and which has been accused of taking bribes from foreign governments. It’s cofounder left the organisation saying he would “ having never imagined the Henry Jackson Society "would become a far-right, deeply anti-Muslim racist ... propaganda outfit to smear other cultures, religions and ethnic groups". He claimed that "The HJS for many years has relentlessly demonised Muslims and Islam".

It refused to disclose its corporate donor list to a UK All party parliamentary group but those early donors listed in Wikipedia are mostly Jewish background so it’s likely that this society is pro- Israeli in outlook.

It’s a bit like trusting Dr Wakefield to give you good advice about getting your kid immunised

I'm still wondering what was allegedly dishonest or indirect about my response to the OP... I'm happy to clarify whatever it was.

Ok so @RightClothesWrongWeather answered the OP's point from the survey on whether the 7th October occurred or not.

She was clear in that both her and her personal circle do indeed believe that the attacks on 7th October however she concedes that others in her community would deny the events. This is what made her answer honest.

However I don't think you have addressed any of the points from the survey. But happy to be corrected.

@1dayatatime

Are these results reflective of my friends, family and acquaintances? The answer is no.

I have then given some responses to questions where my views may differ from the 'general public' responses.

If there's anything you'd like me to expand on or clarify, just ask.

Because their donors "are mostly Jewish background"?

No, because they have a significant bias against the demographic being investigated and financial and political incentives to generate and present data that shows a particular result.

This is what made her answer honest

The honesty of that poster’s answer was never in question.

But previously you said that that answer was the first honest answer of the tread. This imo comes across as suggesting that you think all the earlier answers on the thread were dishonest.

@ScrollingLeaves I'm still not sure what I'm being alleged to have been dishonest about in my answer. I didn't think I was that confusing...

Nothing you said was dishonest, Scirroco, nor were other posters, other than ‘the only honest’ one, in any way dishonest.

It must just have been a throwaway remark.

The other thing to bear in mind in interpreting this study is that the study population was a quota sample, weighted to reflect the population demographics. It’s not very transparent about what kind of panel was used to recruit the individuals so we don’t really know if they were truly representative in terms their interpretation of Islam.

So it’s possible that you could get people sharing demographics but one group could hold more traditional or extreme views.
Some of the findings were presented as if they were clear evidence of an emerging threat- people want halal food in hospitals and schools??? I’m a Catholic and I’ve been fed halal meat since I was 10. Hadn’t done my blood fats or the climate problem much good but other that hasn’t harmed me. The alternative is that you cook two meals or tell the Muslim doctor /patient would they mind just having a sandwich?

@Kindatired one time, the available halal option was that I could take the ham out of a ham and cheese sandwich.

Missing that the ham had been in contact with the rest of the sandwich.

A local hospital to me has a halal option.

Evidently enough medical staff as well as patients are Muslim to make this a reasonable provision.

In practice it can mean some excellent vegetarian meals that vegetarians and vegans of all faiths or none might like too.

The meals cost a bit more than the non- Muslim ones though even when there is no meat.

Anyway I was surprised this was on the questionnaire as I thought it might be common practice already.

It is common in a lot of places now. All the main hospitals near me have halal menu options now, as do quite a lot of schools and nurseries.

It’s also difficult to know the context for people’s opinions. For instance, in Ireland we just voted against a re moving the clause in the constitution that said that “women should not be obliged by economic necessity to neglect their duties in the home” although generally referenda here tend to go in a progressive direction.But most people I know who voted against felt that parental leave entitlements were favouring higher earners who could manage on one income and we should at least aspire to level the playing pitch so people could take their parental leave and also not send 4 year olds to big school for financial reasons. The referendum results made the international news - a woman’s place is in the home etc etc

So from this survey, we don’t know if the men who felt that women should have a more traditional role felt so because they thought that supports should be in place so that children weren’t forced to go to full time childcare through economic necessity or whether they thought that women should be barefoot and pregnant cooking up nice meals and pouring the tea for their menfolk.

What important point you make.