Q for British Muslims

[Muthaofcats]

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/2024/04/08/only-one-in-four-british-muslims-believe-hamas-committed-murder-and-rape-in-israel-on-october-7th/

I was really curious (and shocked) to read news reports of the recent research canvassing the views of British Muslims in this country, it covers things like support for Hamas and anti semitism, but also extends to views on women’s roles in British society and subjects like homophobia too.

These views are quite at odds with public sentiment and our law and social policy generally, so I was quite shocked by them and what they mean for social cohesion and education in this country.

I am very conscious of the limitations of any study like this, and also that there is no one ‘Muslim’ identity, but would love to hear from Muslim women on here to see what you made of these reports / the findings ?

Do they broadly reflect your views or that of your community ?

If so, how does that impact on your life day to day and do you see a way that such values can peacefully coexist alongside those who do not share the same view point as you?

I am asking this out of genuine curiosity and in good faith, I am inviting respectful discourse only.

I do not want any hateful or racist language about ANY group in this thread please.

If the research methodology is inadequate then there's absolutely no point discussing the 'conclusions'

I'm Muslim. The responses so far on this thread have made my day. Thanks, to the majority of people who responded, for looking at this questionnaire and thread critically and not falling for Islamaphobic claptrap.

I'm as liberal a leftie as they come. I'm socially and politically liberal. I've been to some villages in deepest England and felt like the most left wing person there by far. If you want Conservative views, I'd start there.

Muslims are a diverse bunch of people. They don't 'think one way'. But they are mostly located in multi cultural cities, as many new and historical immigrants are, living side by side with all sorts of people quite happily.

1000 survey responses from a 4000000 population would equate to approximately +/-3 with a 95% confidence.

I can’t comment on the quality of the data questions or the ethics of the organisation who conducted the survey.

I will say the results, though disappointing, don’t surprise me. At my sons’ school children were passing out sweets and chanting ‘free, free palestine’ on the Monday after the massacres, rapes, and kidnappings.

Should I be allowed to draw a picture of the Prophet and show it to school children?

Draw a picture of whoever you like, show it wherever you want to. It's a free country.

@Dulra , it’s also in the telegraph. You wouldn’t expect the left wing press to feature it, it doesn’t conform to their agenda.

the research methodology is described in the link.

I can’t see anything wrong with their approach. Do you have specific concerns?

@BionicBadger , agreed! ‘It’s uncomfortable so it can’t be true’.

Would you say that a sizeable proportion of British Muslims agree with you @Pieceofpurplesky ? I'm very happy that you broadly share my political and social views, but that fact doesn't really address the point unless you are part of a significant cohort.

The reason I ask about the methodology specifically is because I am a researcher myself. I carry out qualitative and quantitative research day in and day out and I know how easy it is to manipulate data.

That aside, I do think 'Muslims' are specifically targeted by right wing press and think tanks. Studies like this would have the British population believing that the British Muslim population is a danger to society and preventing women or gay people from going about their daily lives. We often see stats and studies about British Muslims in the press because that's the current bogeyman.

Your experience of your students is worth noting.And Christian’s too go to, or avoid, certain churches for various reasons.

The gender differences are interesting, that more Muslim women are likely to have a positive view of Hamas than men (in the survey).

What’s the problem with showing a picture of Mohammed? I know it’s caused issues (such as that poor teacher in Yorkshire) but why Is showing a picture such a problem? Not a satirical Charlie Hebdo style one, just a picture?

If the Henry Jackson think tank told me it was sunny, I'd take an umbrella with me.

They're known for poor methodology and bias.

Just another cheap attempt to fuel hatred of Muslims in time for Eid.

Eid Mubarak for tomorrow, everyone. (But no potatoes)

It may surprise you but there are prayer rooms in hospitals, airports, shopping centres, etc. Any person of any faith or none can use them for prayer or reflection.

Less than 7% of the UK population identified as Muslim at the last census. Quite a few of the percentages given for 'general public' answers suggest that actually the public are becoming more open to ideas like having public holidays for faith holidays other than Christianity.

Even the most mainstream mosque is not going to be teaching that gay marriage is a good thing, or that it’s ok to show a picture of the Prophet Muhammad

I don’t think Christian churches would actively teach that gay marriage is a good thing, and so far as they are now fairly tolerant by and large in practice in the U.K. , that has only come about with the progress of time. This most likely would be true of many British Muslims too - increasingly there would be greater tolerance among them given time.

Christians do not ban iconography though they did at one stage. It is the idea that no one can so fully understand the sacred that they can depict it without
distortion. There is a philosophical reason ( obviously though no teacher stumbling into that mistake should be punished).

There was outcry in the U. K at the time it came out over Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian” even though they never actually made fun of Jesus, only of some crowd characters.

No doubt in America it would be very easy to cause offence to Christians.

Charlie Hebdo was disliked by many French Catholics as well as Muslims, not that they would have blown anyone up over it in that dreadful way.

The Pope condemned the violence
“One cannot offend, make war, kill in the name of one’s own religion, that is, in the name of God,” Francis said. “To kill in the name of God is an aberration.”
though he did say too,
“If [a close friend] says a swear word against my mother, he’s going to get a punch in the nose,” he explained. “One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.”

I think Charlie Hebdoe did a cartoon of the Queen kneeling on Meghan Markel’s neck as though she were George Floyd. A survey question would get interesting responses from non Muslims about that!

@ScrollingLeaves Idolatry, that’s very helpful, thank you.

@WinterDeWinter I think you meant to tag @Playtennistops

Sadly, I'm not overly surprised as I've seen a similar thing happen in Norway

I agree, people should be able to do those things without fear of being attacked and killed. At the same time, it was just TWO individuals who walked into Charli Hebdo offices and killed the staff over the drawings. Yet the narrative being pushed is that it's Muslims who are to blame.

The ideas that drive people to behave in this way are to blame. Individual people who didn’t do it are of course not to blame.

Why is this thread in CME board, please?

That is right. I mentioned Charlie Hebdoe without thinking to point that out that, so I apologise.

Sunder Katawala has a really good thread on the methodology, here: x.com/sundersays/status/1777072573873864914

Interestingly I have lived in a MENA country and my colleagues were gobsmacked we have prayer rooms in public facilities- they have a clear separation between the state and religion.

The UK and Iran are the only 2 countries in the world to have religion formally represented in government (Bishops etc in the Lords). We are not in a strong position to be saying religion and state should be separate.

If a couple of Christians did a horrible thing, would you blame Christianity with a caveat for 'individual people who didn't do it' (otherwise known as 'almost all'), or would you blame the individuals who did the horrible thing?