To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

Read some history if you genuinely want to be better informed. Go to your local library and get some books out

Well off the top of my head there were rallies against the war in Vietnam, Iraq, etc If there are more and more prolonged protests now surely that’s because so many people believe this is so very very wrong?

I can't believe the delusion has got to the point that people are actually convincing themselves that Israel is supporting people in Gaza 🥴

I think maybe they should have used some of their aid money to build infrastructure and/or stopped bombing their neighbours, tbh.

You literally can not say anything about the horrors that Israel is committing with being called "anti semitic"! It's used as a way of shutting any criticism right down. Funny as many Jews are also against the currently Israeli government and the horrors and war crimes being committed.

I seem to recall there was a lot of infrastructure in Gaza - schools, universities, hospitals - until Israel obliterated it to the ground. But keep justifying genocide …

Given Israel has flattened the homes, hospitals, schools and universities of Gaza, pumped sea water into the water system and killed huge numbers of people how would that have improved anything?

To replace the infrastructure Israel keep destroying with bombs do you mean?

Israel has long been providing services to palestine. Even hamas supporters acknowledge that, as seen in the post I was replying to:

"No presence except controlling access to movement, food, water, electricity"

(Guess this is one of those examples of people carefully choosing what they see so as not to disturb their worldview!)

Israel had no idea Hamas was building a network of tunnels?
Someone has been done over hear and I don't believe it's the Palestinians.

Politicians and the rich play games and let things play out to their benefit, regardless of human loss.
Just think how much the defence industry has made from supplies to Ukraine and latterly more profitably to Israel

A post saying that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is Israel helping Gaza.

Well I've heard it all now 😖

You’re referring to me as a Hamas supporter? Because I oppose genocide? Because I don’t justify children being killed?

Wow!

I assume you're talking about Israel taking US aid and bombing the Palestinians? To be fair though Israel is confiscating Palestinian land and property, evicting the Palestinians and installing Jewish settlers building infrastructure in the West Bank.

They're occupying the area, I'm not sure how exactly you think those things would get in when Israel are blockading the area. And yet you're suggesting it's an act of morality to provide food and water? You know why they blockade Gaza to control those things - so they can cut them off when they wish to as collective punishment. Your're suggesting as well that Hamas provide these things but that's impossible under Israeli occupation.

(Guess this is one of those examples of people carefully choosing what they see so as not to disturb their worldview!)

You're so close to the point

And to that extent I support Israel.

I still think their government are utterly vile.

No one believes what happen on Oct 7th was justified. But you have to understand that this happen because what has gone on between these two countries led to this attack

On a point of fact, lots of people think the attacks were justified and have openly said so. You don’t need to look hard to find these. I really wish people would stop this ‘No-one…’ narrative when it is so demonstrable false.

Anyway, back to the bulk of your post.

The argument you present ( essentially one of plucky Hamas fighting for oppressed citizens) would be more convincing if it weren’t for the fact that Hamas deliberately planned an attack of such appalling brutality that they knew it would bring down terrible bloodshed from Israel on their own people, and then issued statements glorifying in these martyrs and saying how more of their blood was needed.

Whatever Hamas’ motivations were they sure weren’t, and never have been, protecting the civilians of Palestine or improving their lives.

I find it strange and telling that whilst most people debating this issue can recognise that atrocities were and are being committed on both sides, some posters can’t actually do that in an objective fashion.

Hamas committed terrible crimes in Oct, I don’t think anybody here is disputing that. But why can’t certain posters recognise that Israel is also committing terrible crimes? If only war was that black and white with “goodies” and “baddies.” It’s just such a strange and blinkered stance I can’t get my head around it. I suppose you have to be totalitarian in order to be able to justify it to yourself.

drivinmecrazy

I’ll give you a simple answer.
As the Austro Hungarian empire, “the best place in the world for Jews” and hub of European Jewry, collapsed, paving the way for democracy and its strange bedfellow, nationalism, antisemitism was on the rise again in Europe. Enter Theodor Herzl, father of Zionism and prominent European Jewish voice for the creation of a Jewish State: Israel. As nationalism, xenophobia, fascism, and antisemitism swept across Europe heralding in the Holocaust, Herzl’s vision of a Jewish state went from a dream to a necessity for European Jews.

Historically, Jerusalem is the Jewish capital for all Jews. Israel is the Jewish homeland. All Jews from all over see Jerusalem as the spiritual and national epicentre for their people, which was created during the rule of King David.

It’s almost funny now. Criticise Israel government’s actions and you are antisemitic and support Hamas. I would love them to say that to the faces of the Jewish people I know who oppose Netanyahu’s actions in Palestine.

The IDF are a bunch of thugs arm to the teeth by The States and Hamas are a death cult so I despise both of them . I sympathise with the poor innocent people on BOTH sides of this horrible war who are dying (The Palestinians in way greater numbers sadly but also the Israeli citizens raped , tortured by said extremist nutters also). So no I don't sympathise with either of the powers that be or any of the marchers (although one "side" is louder here ). The innocent people. And time again aid workers, refugees, hospitals etc end up getting hit don't they ?

Thank you for that.
Now another question, how many people were displaced when it was decided that Israel would be created and become their homeland ?
Were they 'displaced' or 'relocated'?

I asked these questions a few times on these threads and have had no response. I sympathise with Jewish people and the threat that they feel from all sides. However:

If Hamas are a terrorist group, how can the people of Palestine be condemned for “electing” them? Surely, living under a terrorist group, there is no such thing as a free and democratic election, by virtue of them being….terrorist.

If Hamas are hiding under ground AND using innocent people as human shields, how is bombing from the sky not indiscriminate and not assuming that everyone you see is a terrorist?

What do the Israeli government actually want? Given that they are said to be the only democratic state in the Middle East, what do they think is the fair and just way for Palestinians to live safely as their neighbours?

In my life, I have never seen Israel so widely condemned but there allies as is happening now. Clearly those leaders know far more than we do about what is actually going on so why are normal people continue to defend so vehemently things that we know to be untrue. You cannot just say well Hamas are bad, we know they’re bad, there terrorists!

@drivinmecrazy

how many people were displaced when it was decided that Israel would be created and become their homeland?

Quite