To think that the blame lies with Hamas and Israel deserves our support

[measuringmylifeincoffeespoons]

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers recently is a terrible tragedy and it is entirely right that Israel is investigating why it happened and holding members of the IDF responsible.

However, the criticism of Israel seems to miss a fundamentally important point which is that Israel is engaged in military operations in Gaza for one reason only: the barbaric terrorist attacks that were committed by Hamas on 7 October and their continued imprisonment of Israel citizens as hostages.

Of course, the deaths of the aid workers is a tragedy. Every civilian death that occurs in a war is a tragedy. But the reality is that that is what happens in a war, and Hamas is responsible for the fact that there is a war.

The war can be ended, and billions of dollars of aid can be released into Gaza, very simply. Hamas simply needs to lay down its arms and release the Israeli citizens that it has taken hostage and continues to keep imprisoned.

Unless and until Hamas do that, the state of Israel deserves our continuing support in its battle against a brutal terrorist organisation that has kidnapped the innocent civilians of a democratic state.

14,000 militants?? Do you have an official source for that please.

How are you so sure of the numbers you’re quoting?

Morality is fairly simple for most people. It's not OK to kill kids. Not by bombs, snipers, starvation, dehydration or induced disease and injury. Voila. You can talk about how they live in a bad neighbourhood, sadly they are in the way, you're actually trying to kill terrorists, or even 'war is like that.' But most people know right from wrong and will object to it.

@Annettekurtin

Israel had no presence in Gaza prior to 7 October and hadn’t for many years

Ok then. The awful thing is, the more you deny deny deny the less credulous you sound and now you’re just coming across as a bit of an extremist nutter TBH

What's offensive to Ireland is the UK sitting back and watching Israel starve Gaza, watching a man-made famine unfold like the UK learnt nothing from the awful thing they did. That's offensive.

I agree mostly. Hamas are the agressors. There are always civilian casualties in war. America was always killing non enemies in so-called friendly fire. Why havent the hostages been released?

No presence except controlling access to movement, food, water, electricity and every one in a while - what is it called? Mowing the grass? By dropping bombs on them.

Come off it. This is from an extremely well-respected international organisation. If that isn't evidence of starvation, what is?

The fact that you are closing your eyes to basic facts like this because they are inconvenient to your argument tells us all we need to know.

You're literally on here repeating Isreali propaganda. How do you explain to yourself why aren't they allowing journalists to verify their claims?
We have been seeing brave Palestinian journalists documenting the massacres..less is coming out of Palestine now because those journalists are being killed. We are seeing the IDF proudly share disgusting videos of their soldiers, how do you feel when you see those?

Oh and rape-denier too. Shame on you.

Have you seen all my words against Hamas and my support for the Israeli victims on this thread? You have expressed no sympathy for Palestinians and even deny they are being murdered 🤯.

Thank goodness the people I know irl of all faiths are not like this. I think some of my Jewish circle would be quite shocked by your comment. As I said, shame on you.

I guess you can be cite those numbers if you believe every Gazan man is a member of Hamas. This is the IDF's approach. Strong stench of genocide from it.

Palestinian children shot in the head by Israeli snipers asked for it? Tell me, did they vote in the last election in 2006? Your lack of humanity is shocking.

Edited to add : before you try and justify this to yourself by thinking Israel are acting this way due to Hamas, they've been routinely sniping children in the West Bank for years too. Children.

Hamas is also an ideology not a group that can be 'got rid of'. All those Palestinian kids that manage to survive this genocide and starvation are the Hamas of tomorrow and will not forget their brother and sisters murdered by the IDF. The current Israeli government are directly to blame for this. The two state solution is the only way forward that both will need to accept if there is any chance of a peaceful future for all. The illegal occupation of Palestine has to stop.

I have not justified terrorism one little bit, what Hamas did was heinous and in no way benefitted the Palestinian diaspora.

However, YOU are justifying the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians in Palestine/Israel.

Well, they have a border between themselves and Gaza which controls movement - as most countries do. Do you also object to Egypt controlling the movement of palestinians into their country? Or is it just Israel you'd demand terrorists can enter without any checks? They control the food, water etc as their elected government (hamas) dismantled the infrastructure that Israel had built and then abandoned when they left, and then spent all the aid money they were sent building tunnels and bombs instead of building new facilities. Do you have any condemnation for the endless bombing that palestine's subjected Israel to? How about the suicide bombers? Is Israel just suppose to sit there with open borders not defending itself? While providing those doing the bombing with water, electricity, food etc! No other state had ever done more to support their attackers, and no other people would ever have been expected to do so.

Agree.
Though perversely it's this current Israeli government and Hamas who are both against a two state solution.

Israel have a strategy to mitigate the impact on civilians. But the reality is that civilians get killed in a war. That has always happened. It will always happen. It does not mean that Israel,is breaking international humanitarian law.

There is so much evidence that humanitarian law is being broken left, right, and centre by Israel, by Hamas, by the US. One example (in a sea of many examples, the half I wouldn't even know about as a lay person) is white phosphorous, which, while not a banned substance, is illegal to use against the civilian population or in proximity of civilians and in offensive warfare (Israel could argue that it is using it defensively, which is not unlawful but... it sure doesn't look or feel like it's being used defensively, imo).
And Israel has broken, in the past and present, humanitarian law by using white phosphorous as an offensive weapon in its military operations. And yes, Hamas too is breaking humanitarian law. Every fucker is breaking humanitarian law at this stage.
And Israel's 'gold standard' strategy to mitigate the impact on civilians has failed to the point of full blown genocide now being the reality that so many seem desperate to justify through rhetoric born of fanatical thinking.

Israel failed to protect its own people from Hamas on October the 7th. And that is a tragic fact. Israeli security was lax because of government complacency. What is so damn sad about October the 7th is that Israel was lulled into a false sense of security by Hamas. And history should dictate to the Israeli government that complacency is not an option. There is too much hatred on both sides for complacency to be given any space. Israel cannot afford to ever be lulled into a false sense of security; not because the Palestinian people are the bad guys but because the Jewish state will always be surrounded by organisations that do not want its existence. That is not about to change in my lifetime. Or my children's lifetime. Or my children's children's lifetime.

And you don’t think you’ve massively oversimplified and ignored fundamental issues in your original post @measuringmylifeincoffeespoons ?

Isreal has spent decades occupying, oppressing and killing Palestinians, who have been forced to give up their homes and live in ghettos (which frankly you would think jewish people would understand is unacceptable). If you oppress people expect uprising.

Hostage taking is wrong, but Netanyahu is using is as an excuse to commit genocide and there is no way out without Israel acting like a proper state in terms of proportionate response, not like a toddler lashing out in a tantrum.

It blows my mind that the resident extremist thinks ‘Israel will win’. There will be no winners. Not the Israelis who want to live in peace, not any surviving Palestinians who will be filled with hatred and rage, not the countries who will have to take Palestinian refugees, certainly not the Palestinians or Israelis who have lost loved ones. No one. There will never be peace and Israel is guaranteeing that.

Extremely anti Semitic post

@callmej “No other state had ever done more to support their attackers, and no other people would ever have been expected to do so”

I don’t think the people in Gaza find forced starvation and indiscriminate killing to be a supportive tactic tbh.

Why have they been bombed? Why are they being starved? Why were some shot by the IDF while waving white flags?
Their families are desperate for Israel to negotiate their release, but the government doesn't want them home. Because then how would they get people like you to defend the assault on innocent civilians in Gaza?