Side by side placement of ukranian flag and palestinian flag

[TakeMe2Insanity]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/14/soho-theatre-bans-comedian-paul-currie-jewish-audience-members

Interesting situation: side by side placement of the flags.

It’s the bit, should a person on stage start arguing with the crowd? Should members of the audience object to flags on stage?

Yeah I think any evidence gathered by him off social media is pretty unlikely to be accurate/impartial. Tbh I don’t think we need to get tied up on whether he’s an anti-Semite. His behaviour was awful regardless.

I disagree with the idea that racism/sexism is in the eye of the beholder but it’s funny how people who do buy into it (microagressions etc) make an exception for anti-semitism.

@Grandmasswag

"Maybe a bit of a knee jerk reaction for the theatre? Who knows. I think they need to investigate properly and gather info from the plenty of eye whitenesses."

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Or does this really mean get a variety of different accounts of what happened from people about whom we have no evidence that they were actually there, all in order to confuse and cast doubt on the account of Soho Theatre (who we definitely know were there).

You can then finish off with some made up conspiracy theories about Soho Theatre being linked up to some Israeli investment fund etc.

The article you gave regarding what the theatre said showed that the theatre's comments were entirely based on hearsay. They quoted what the man in question saw, and a witness (which contradicted what the man said).

So as far as reliability is concerned, it's not really any better than the other people giving accounts/interviewed. Only once a lot of accounts are received is anyone going to be in a conclusion to draw conclusions.

What's pretty much universally acknowledged is why/how it started (standing ovation floor the show not for the flags) and that the comedian challenged the man in question and became abusive to him swearing and telling him to leave.

Most accounts don't marry with the man's that Jewish people were asked to leave - very few accounts mention that Jewishness was raised at all (the witness with the theatre said it wasn't mentioned). If more come forward saying it was, I'll obviously reassess that view.

How can you compare what happened in a theatre and the Nuremberg rallies? This is not comparable.
How do you know the man is Israeli or Jewish? Did the comedian know the man's nationality or religion before making him leave?
I am not defending the comedian, I just don't understand how people came to their own conclusions, when they were not there. Is there an audio of the incident? Witnesses' statement? If not, it's just speculations on both sides of the debate.

You could be right. Isn’t it also possible that the theatre had a knee jerk reaction to some complaints without investigating them properly? Hopefully we’ll get a better picture of exactly what happened soon.

You've already decided the man is a genocide supporter who deserved it.

@Auvergne63

"How can you compare what happened in a theatre and the Nuremberg rallies? This is not comparable. "

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By whipping up a crowd and encouraging them to intimidate either a Jewish person or a person sympathetic to Israel seems quite similar to some of the Nuremberg speeches.

@inkworks273

Hopefully we’ll get a better picture of exactly what happened soon.

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No we won't get a better picture of exactly what happened.

As @Shelaugh stated "any evidence gathered by him off social media is pretty unlikely to be accurate/impartial. Tbh I don’t think we need to get tied up on whether he’s an anti-Semite. His behaviour was awful regardless."

The only credible recollection of events still has to be that provided by the theatre.

I think it depends what he actually said and whether he knew the person he was talking to was Israeli/Jewish. But he acted like a complete arse either way.

Also he (the comedian) may be looking for attention. They say there’s no such thing as bad publicity😕

Why?
They are only basing what was said on witness accounts at well. Which contradicted each other.

Yeah they would.

This is what I’m wondering. Is this another example of being being anti Israel being conflated with antisemitism? The comedian wouldn’t have know that the man was Israeli/Jewish. It does seem that most accounts have the man saying something disparaging about the flag so I’m inclined to believe it. Supposing a Russian had said something unfavourable about the Ukrainian flag presented, would they have been told to get out? I think at this sort of show (and I don’t get it at all) they most likely would, given the comic is clearly very anti war. I strongly suspect that anyone who said anything that doesn’t align with his political views would probably receive the same treatment. I just don’t think the press would care and I think the theatre would have put out some statement about ‘art tackling uncomfortable topics blablabla’. I mean we’ve literally banned Russians from entering sports sporting events etc. It’s not their personal faults their leader is a psychopath. If we were allied with Israel presumably there would be similar sanctions? Would that be antisemitic?

Good point about Russia. I live near the Russian embassy in Dublin and all the houses near it have Ukrainian flags flying in their gardens, even the local council have Ukrainian flags on all the lampposts all along the road the embassy is on. There is a 24 protest opposite the embassy, been there for months. I can only imagine the outrage if similar was done outside the Israeli embassy with Palestinian flags. In saying that the Israeli ambassador to Ireland has already said we are antiemetic

Still not comparable because you present your opinion as fact. Unless you were there or you have a video recording of the event, you really cannot assume anything.

Or merely a subjective,speculative description rather objective fact.

Facts are tricky things aren't they? so debatable.

The sky is blue...but only on a sunny day, sometimes it's grey, yellow, pink etc.
Grass is green...but not in the middle of a drought.

Let's see if a caution or a charge or an action in court results...

You don't understand what a fact is, do you? Please look up the definition.
Facts are not debatable, only interpretations of said facts.
As Mark Twain said, "get your facts first, then distort them as you ,please" or "“I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts.”

I can almost feel you bristling.

Is Mark Twain the arbiter of facts? Or are you?
Your quote is a catchy soundbite but is it an unarguable truth?

Bristling? Nope. I am always astounded by the fact that some people are so ignorant of the difference between fact/opinion, a concept easily understood by primary school children ( 20 years in teaching as taught me that).
Facts are facts. Argue with them as much as you want. They won't change.
I sincerely hope you are not a scientist though.
Another concept you appear not to understand, in this context: truth. But this is not the thread to discuss it.

Oh bless you. 20 years teaching primary well done.
sorry to dash your hopes, if you've seen me on Mumsnet you know I'm a scientist.

Oh bless you. 20 years teaching primary well done.
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
I'm a scientist.
If you are, you should apply the rigorous scientific method and critical thinking before you form an opinion. Your post shows that you don't.

In your opinion.

This. A few days ago, probably none of us would have known this guy's name and now he's all over the place. He'll have used those flags for a reaction. The type of reaction and who it hurts probably aren't as important as the attention it's generated for him.

True.

I'd say having your shows cancelled and your livelihood threatened seems like pretty bad publicity.