Standing up for Israel

[Fizzadora]

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

Have I wandered onto the wrong thread? Thought this one was about standing with Israel.

Nice to see mutual understanding from pp's, it's been a bit hostile over here.

Cup of tea anyone..bit of cake 🍰 I think it's halal, kosher...vegetarian...gluten free...

Is anyone still supporting Israel here? Shocked if so.

If you mean is anyone still supporting Israel's right to exist then yes, I'm still supporting Israel. Do you not support Israel's right to exist or something?

This is so boring at this stage. Absolutely nobody on this thread is denying Israels right to exist. It exists, its there. They are saying that Israel don’t have the right to be tyrannical illegal occupiers. Israel don't have the right to commit war crimes. Israel don't have the right to starve millions of people also known as collective punishment which is a crime against humanity. Israel has the same rights as every other country and the right to commit atrocities isn't one of them. That is what people are not standing up for, Israels right to abuse, maim, starve and occupy. There are no rights that allow you to do that.

Very well said.

@ProfessorPipsqueak

"This is so boring at this stage."

+++

I don't think it is a case of "boring" but more a case of polarisation of views on both sides that become ever more extremist with a big dollop of conspiracy theories thrown in as well.

This sadly has two effects of a) making any peaceful compromise solution impossible to achieve and b) turning most people off the topic as they start to see both sides as extremists.

No humane person could support Israel's actions now - and a lot of its actions in the past.

Are those actions the necessary price of Israel existing?

I don't think so. But if so - something is very, very wrong with this situation.

Actually, a lot of posters on this board have openly said they don't believe in Israel's right to exist. Those posts get reported and deleted though.

But I'm glad to hear you support Israel's right to exist!

The Western world should have dealt VERY VERY severely with expansion. The Jewish State should have remained as it was originally.

In the meantime, settlers and their families are awaiting just outside Gaza- ready to go and settle Gaza with their own settlements as soon as possible. How can anyone support this?

Netanyahu has been saying for almost half a century, that Palestine has no right to exist :( and he still says the same.

Actually my understanding is that many Israelis have been displaced from border areas because you know rocket fire and stuff. I'll put the tea & cake away then.

@ProfessorPipsqueak "This is so boring at this stage. Absolutely nobody on this thread is denying Israel's right to exist."

But actually you are.

In order to exist Israel needs to vanquish it's enemies. When one group is interspersed with a civilian population it causes problems.

Israel is in a unenviable, unique situation where it is surrounded on 3 sides by terrorist organisations committed to it's destruction.

Hamas in Gaza & Hezbollah in Lebanon both funded by Iran (Shia Muslim)

Al Qaeda in Syria (Sunni Muslim)

All of these groups are funded by foreign powers that want to remove Israel and create an Islamic Caliphate (Sunni or Shia) in the region.

Israel is fighting for it's survival.

Yes, it's appalling that so many of our leaders won't stand up to him. Appalling and pathetic.

“Israel is fighting for it's survival.”
and in order to achieve that it has to destroy a country and kill thousands and injury for life millions.

Israel is fighting for it's survival.

No, survival does not mean destroying an entire area and killing all its inhabitants, most of them children. The plans of some people already proposing to settle in parts of Gaza are just vile beyond words.

And also unlikely. Rumour has it Israel forcibly removed settlers from Gaza, even disinterred the dead for fear of desecration. Not all Gazans want peace or accept Israels existence and suicide bombs on buses tend to create bad neighbourly relations.

I'll repeat what I said. Israel does not have more rights than any other country. They do not have the right to starve millions. They do not have the right to kill civillians en masses. They do not have the right to commit war crimes. They do not have the right to illegally occupy.

Israel is no more fighting for its survival than any other country that has had a terrorist attack. It's shocking and dreadful but it doesn't threaten a countries right to exist.

I think some people on this thread need to look at the bigger picture.

If Israel stopped fighting it would be destroyed by incursions from Hamas, Hebollah, Al Nusrah and other State Sponsored Terrorist groups.

UK (and other) Governments are concerned about Iran's influence in the region -

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9504/

@quantumbutterfly 11 cabinet ministers and 15 coalition members of Knesset were amongst those who showed their support and attended the resettlement of Gaza conference that was held not long ago. So these concerns are not baseless.

Sadly I see no middle ground on this topic, especially as views become ever more polarised.

If Israel agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow it would mean a lot fewer Palestinian civilian casualties but it would mean Hamas would remain in power and they would attack Israeli civilians as they have promised to do so.

If there is no ceasefire tomorrow then the war continues, there are fewer Israeli civilian casualties but more Palestinian casualties.

So ultimately it comes down to a choice between Israeli civilian casualties or Palestinian civilian casualties. And if you want to protect Israeli civilians then you will correctly be criticised for not caring about Palestinian civilian casualties and if you want to protect Palestinian civilian casualties then you will correctly be criticised for not caring about Israeli civilian casualties.

Exactly. Unfortunately it's something mny of us expected to happen since the start of this most recent stage of the conflict.

It's not that we don't care. But it is easy to pontificate from afar, most of us are not being terrorised or bombed.

Sounds like a question for israelilefty...

History shows that this isn't true though. Year on year on year on year more Palestinians than Israelis die. This isn't about not caring. This is about looking at the situation realistically. Israels existence is not in anyway threatened. It just isn't. It took two years of planning and lots of ignoring of intelligence warnings for Hamas to kill 1200 people. Israel retaliated and 4% of Gazas population is either dead, injured or missing in a few months. Israel have the power, this is clear for anyone to see.