Standing up for Israel

[Fizzadora]

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

It will be without a doubt. The videos are absolutely horrific yet some still attempt to defend. This has stained Israel already and will not vanish.

I am pretty black and white about antisemitism yes.
But what do you define as antisemitism?

@Ladyjanegreysketle

*" A short clip at the end of the video, claiming to show tents and shelter"

No clip seen.*

There's no clip because it's a screenshot. A screenshot is an image not a video. The original post by the State of Israel was deleted.

Most field hospitals use the same equipment.

Maybe so but in exactly the same place and set up?

Beggars belief doesn't it. I posted the link yesterday and it's being questioned on here already 🙄

So the whole thing is inaccurate?

OK

Exactly

And geo-location data in the image for Moldova vs Gaza will be different hence IDF being caught out trying to deceive

@Fussandmisery

This has been done to death. I don't care about criticism of the government. I criticise the government. I don't care about Criticism of Netanyahu.... he should be criticised. There is lots of scope for Criticism.

I complain when it heads into ' the media are controlled by all Jews and they control world territory' which I hear on a regular basis. It's all the jews type stuff..... why don't the Jews do X and Y?

That also goes for personal insults.I am entitled to my opinion (as long as not offensive etc) as you are yours.

I don't understand the reluctance or hesitancy to call antisemitism out. If we were addressing racism and you told me I was just trying to shut you up....... and?

The rules are clear. I only ever report if they are stand out 'Wow' comments. And I have no more clout than the next person so they are obviously breaking rules and delete them.

I complain when it heads into ' the media are controlled by all Jews and they control world territory' which I hear on a regular basis. It's all the jews type stuff..... why don't the Jews do X and Y? *

Sorry but where do you see this? I've not seen any posts on here that say "Jews" type stuff. Everyone on here has been criticising the government/IDF and Netanyahu which you always seem to defend.

That also goes for personal insults.I am entitled to my opinion (as long as not offensive etc) as you are yours.

I won't point out yours from another as that would be a TAAT.

How can anyone justify this false propaganda?

Why is each 'side' so entrenched that (for example) people who feel Israel's behaviour is warranted cant at least say that the use of this picture is disgraceful and completely wrong, and acknowledge how it damages Israel's credibility?

@anotherlevel last night on the mp thread. It was deleted. I have seen that several times.

If you feel I have been personal then complain. I try not to be.

This has been done to death. I don't care about criticism of the government. I criticise the government. I don't care about Criticism of Netanyahu.... he should be criticised. There is lots of scope for Criticism.

I complain when it heads into ' the media are controlled by all Jews and they control world territory' which I hear on a regular basis. It's all the jews type stuff..... why don't the Jews do X and Y?

I haven’t seen any posts claiming that Jewish people control the media? There may be some that i didn’t see as they were deleted.

I would say most of the people accused (not necessarily by you personally btw) of antisemitism/being pro Hamas are just critical of the government/IDF.

For example the bombing of Gaza - Israel is trying to obliterate it. Admittedly they are possibly trying to destroy the infrastructure rather than the population but they aren’t really that bothered about the population either. This is a decision made by Israel’s government but some people get very irritated by this being pointed out.

Or the administrative detention that goes on in the West Bank? Apparently it’s antisemitic to point out that detaining people (some of whom are children) without trial is not such a great thing to do. And all the organisations who are report in this (the UN, amnesty international, pretty much any human rights organisation you care to names) are biased (ie antisemitic) etc etc etc.

@Fussandmisery half your post I agree with and half I have opinions on. Criticism is valid I know. I do try and remain open minded.

Not all Criticism is antisemitism.
Some people on here have been.
I wouldn't mention it if it wasn't here regularly.

Totally agree with this. I have been at the receiving end of this behaviour.
Regarding reporting others to CJS and Prevent, it is just a way to shut down any discourse and to intimidate. I find this really unsavoury.

@stomachameleon

If you feel I have been personal then complain. I try not to be.

Come on now, surely on reflection sometimes you've looked back on posts and realised you have definitely been personal? I remember your username specifically because I have noticed such posts, some of which I felt were antagonistic and were very often sarcastic at best.

And FYI many people don't like to report posts in which others insult them or get personal because they would prefer the posts to stand for full context of the discussion.

Regarding reporting others to CJS and Prevent, it is just a way to shut down any discourse and to intimidate. I find this really unsavoury

Yes, there was definitely a move towards this by some posters on here and it probably was an attempt to intimidate.

I mean if this board was full of people saying Jews secretly rule the world or Israel should be destroyed then I’d understand it (and something might of come of the reporting) but that’s not really what’s going on is it?

@whatsitcalledwhen I will take those comments on board.

I don't think it's up to you to decide what a different minority find offensive. It doesn't need to be obvious to others for it to be antisemitic. Maybe open yourself to being educated on antisemitism rather than try to argue about it.

If we have only seen a screenshot from a video that someone's posted on social media where they state this is what happened but we have no evidence as the video no longer exists, it's going to be really difficult to assume it's actually accurate. It's not about defending everything Israel says or does, it's about not blindly trusting everything that's said on social media.

I'm willing to believe the video with the screenshot was false Israeli propaganda but without any proof (as I haven't actually seen the video in question) I'm not to comment on it either way.

I hope that makes sense.

I don't think it's up to you to decide what a different minority find offensive. It doesn't need to be obvious to others for it to be antisemitic. Maybe open yourself to being educated on antisemitism rather than try to argue about it

Well I did ask. And I was told (by stomachameleon) that criticism of Israel’s government is not antisemitism, stuff like Jews control the media, Jews being held to account for Israel’s actions rather than Israel’s government is . Which I would agree with.

@Fussandmisery I don't speak for everyone!

I don't speak for everyone!
Never said you did. Just trying to make a point.

Ok so then why are you opposed to people reporting antisemitic comments to the relevant authorities? Stuff like anti-zionism is mostly antisemitic (if you're anti-zionism you are against a Jewish state of Israel. That means you're against self-determination for Jews) so by reporting it those who have the power to actually do something about it will know what aspects of antisemitism to focus on when they make their educational material. This means others will hopefully not make those same antisemitic comments in the future. That can surely only be a good thing.

Things get reported to educate others, not to get the posters into trouble.

And before I get jumped on for the anti-zionism thing - if you're ok with the state of Israel existing, you're not an anti-zionist. If it's just that you also want a state of Palestine, maybe think of a new word to describe yourselves as anti-zionist is just not a good fit for you. If you're trying to say that you're against certain forms of Zionism then say that. Be specific. If you're specific about not liking eg illegal settlers and their version of Zionism - say that! That's not the same as being against the existence of the state of Israel.

I suppose it’s because I don’t believe the majority of posters on here think Israel should cease to exist. There is a lot of hostility towards Israel on this board admittedly but my impression is that this hostility is directed at its government rather than Israelis themselves and certainly not Jewish people in general.