Standing up for Israel

[Fizzadora]

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

Also, may I add @quantumbutterfly many posters on here, myself included, have buried children. Please think before you say things like that in future.

And if I didn't care or have a conscience, would I spend my life saving lives, including risking my own to do so?

we are strangers on the net, you know nothing of me and my life experiences, sometimes we let offence go by and sometimes we choose to take it.

And you chose to take it when none was intended and be rude in reply.

Interesting. I would assume that someone who is a parent, who has a conscience and who cares, might actually look to apologise after telling the mother of a dead child that she is not a parent.

@Scirocco I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. You were a parent as soon as you learned of the existence of your little one, and that didn't change just because their heart stopped beating.

Thank you.

So what did you mean by asking who 'we' were?

I have seen such divisive rhetoric on here, so many emotive arguments. You know as well as I that parenthood changes you emotionally, and I feel for your loss. Would you use that vulnerability to hurt me?

You said to "ask a terrorist, we are...". Is that 'we' as in "you'll need to take that question off Mumsnet?" or 'we' as in a subgroup of posters, or 'we' as in non-Muslims (trust me, I get that a lot, that I must be a terrorist because of my faith, and there is a lot of othering that takes place on these threads), or 'we' in a completely different sense...

As you say, there's lots of divisive rhetoric on here. I regularly see posts supporting the killing of people that I cared and still care about, posts expressing that the lives of my friends and colleagues are acceptable 'collateral damage'. Rather than rush to take offence where none might be intended, I chose to ask for clarification.

The last bit of your post confuses me. Why would I use any vulnerability to try to hurt you? And what vulnerability? Having compassion? That's not a vulnerability, it's a strength.

Anyway, back to the main topic.

'we' ?
I suppose those of us who crave a peaceful solution, we see our own children in the victims, some of us have adult children who could be sent to war. 'we' can empathise with both sides.

I was taught to 'turn the other cheek' but how does that work when someone wants to kill you because of something you have no control over - the colour of your skin, the place you were born, the faith you grew up with?

Compassion does leave you vulnerable to anyone unscrupulous. We have heard of peacemakers in Israel who were betrayed by people they considered friends and neighbours. Destroying trust and fostering division is how terrorists win.

Your last sentence is so true. But we can't let fear destroy our compassion and empathy. Otherwise we just do their work for them.

It may come as a surprise but I totally understood, as the atrocities of 7/10 unfolded, that there would need to be a response and that it wouldn't be without casualties. A proscribed terrorist organisation which took control of a territory, with international and not exactly pro-peace backers... which decided to go on one of the worst terrorist attacks the world has seen? They can't be left in power. They can't be left without facing justice.

It's what happened next that's where I believe some people may have gone from seeking justice against Hamas to seeking vengeance against Palestinians. There were alternatives to how this unfolded. There still are alternatives.

So you're saying that 7th October was "justified resistance" ?

And no-one's labelling it 'terrorism' - it IS terrorism,

Agreed. It is terrorism. One could argue Hamas have right on their side but I'm no supporter of such a barbaric regime that committed the October 7th massacres. Hamas need to be destroyed.

@Scirocco I am so sorry for your loss and I agree with @Humdingerydoo you absolutely became a mother when you had your little one.

That is exactly the way I read it as, too.

This is an excellent post. There is absolutely a difference between seeking justice and seeking revenge. You are entirely right that there are alternatives that should have been sought months ago.

I am sorry for your loss and hope your family are safe.

@quantumbutterfly

Destroying trust and fostering division is how terrorists win.

I agree, and that's just one of the reasons why the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians is so heartbreaking. That's exactly what the Israeli response (that of the government and IDF, not individual Israelis) will contribute to.

@MooseBreath There is absolutely a difference between seeking justice and seeking revenge. You are entirely right that there are alternatives that should have been sought months ago.

Fully agree with this, well said

When are the next Israeli elections?

Israelis will rightly want a strongly defensive leader, who is there in the running?

anyone know?

Google says: Expected by October 2026
But there has been calls and protests for early elections.
If I remember correctly from Israeli lefties thread then Benny Gantz is seen as most favourable

The last elections were only last year so probably not due for a while

However Netanyahu's coalition is shaky and he's losing US support so likely much sooner

last ones were nov 2022

@TinyYellow disgusting apologist statement. And Naive at best.

This is a great post, thank you. For a long time I've tried to hold on to the belief that Israel were solely focused on eliminating Hamas and getting the hostages back home, but it's gone way beyond resembling anything close to that now. As you say, there are alternatives but I don't think Netanyahu is interested in the slightest and Hamas are just playing ball with him now with some of their outlandish stipulations for ceasefire. Praying for an about-turn on the planned Rafah offensive but it's not looking good. Just feel heartbroken for Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and possibly more selfishly, horrified and fearful at the increase in antisemitic rhetoric closer to home).

@LaDernièreChanson it's a frightening time to be Muslim or Jewish, I think. I've encountered a lot of hate in real life too. Some of what I've seen and experienced has been in the context of angry, grieving and scared people acting or reacting because of trauma or fear, but a bigger proportion is just unpleasant people using this as an excuse to openly express their bigotry.

@LaDernièreChanson what alternatives Would you have liked them to try?