Eliminate Hamas……At any the cost ?

[Itoosurvive]

Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas’ fighters.

So far it has cost 25,000 Palestinian lives.
Approximately 300 members of the IDF have been killed.
According to US intelligence (Rad 4 news 18.00 21-1-2024) between 20% and 30% of Hamas' fighters have been killed.
Approximately 65% of buildings have been destroyed.

So, the IDF is about a quarter of the way through the task they have been set.
The following question is directed at anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas.

When does the loss of life become great enough to call a halt to the operation, or should it carry on until Hamas is eliminated, regardless of the cost?

edit, Title should read "At any cost"

So if you were in Israel's position, you'd bomb schools and hospitals too?

It’s been done in other states. I’m not sure anyone would want to do that but what alternative is there if they keep relentlessly bombing a captive civilian population?

Schools, hospitals, and places of worship do enjoy the protection of the rules of war. However, if those places are used for military purposes, the protections are off.

Israel are more than capable of precision striking. The "eliminating Hamas" rhetoric has worn far too thin. It was on the news at 9am that civilians queuing up for aid were repeatedly struck. More and more senior Israelis are coming out to say they cannot defend these actions.

It really isn't as black and white as you are asserting - the degree of 'military purposes' has to be weighed against the impact of destroying these protected locations - see for example the back-pedalling by IDF/US over Hamas HQ being at Al Shifa hospital

So because that's been done to other states, it's fine for the UN to just invade a democratic country and depose a democratically elected government? Who will then rule the country? WIll they ever get to have elections again or will the country just be run by a foreign military indefinitely? Will the elected representatives that are deposed ever be allowed out of prison?

What alternative? An election? Foreign sanctions maybe? Not a foreign dictatorship anyway.

As for "not sure anyone would want to do that", you sound like you'd love that.

I don't think that's what the law says....

Nor has any credible evidence been presented that any of these civilian locations have in fact been used for military purposes. We’re all just expected to take Israel’s word for it. Given their track history for outright lying, excuse me if i call bullshit on this.

@blackwaterpark I can’t see any alternative if they keep killing thousands of people. Those responsible for killing the civilians surely must be held to account and face jail? Reparation must be made. Safety for all must be secured. The fact a democratically elected government is perpetrating atrocities is more not less concerning surely because it implies the Israeli people support the carnage. We cannot stand by and allow this to continue. I would love for it to stop but I see no appetite for that from Israel.

I'm still waiting to here how long all of the democratically elected representatives will be imprisoned for, who exactly will run this unelected government by force, what when if ever democracy will be restored to Israel in this scary little fantasy of yours.

And what will happen to the people who try to fight back against this unelected foreign dictatorship.

It's true than none of the evidence has been independently verified - the journalists who were shown it/reported it were embedded with the IDF and their videos, photos and copy vetted by the IDF

But tricky to find suitable independent witnesses as the usual bodies UN, HRW Amnesty are not acceptable to Israel - allegedly biased/antisemetic etc

And independent journalists are not permitted to enter Gaza

I was just stated what I read and I totally agree with the points you are making.
I think Netanyahu has made his intentions ,regarding Gaza, very clear and, some may argue, well before the horrors of 07/10 happened.

I would imagine there will be investigations into the war crimes committed and they will be sentenced and then imprisoned if found guilty? Isn’t that what you would expect? I’m not sure why you feel a peacekeeping force and interim government is more scary than what is happening now?

Are you saying you don’t think war crimes should be prosecuted? That you would prefer the international community not to intervene when countries bomb civilians?

Every single member of the Knesset is guilty of warcrimes? Really?

And why a "peacekeeping force" (again, made up of whom exactly and for how long?) instead of replacing these 120 alleged war criminals with elections?

I think a country being invaded and their elected government being forcibly replaced by a foreign military without it's citizens having any say in the matter or anyway of objecting (except by fighting back by force which seems like it would be likey) scary, yes.

Incidentally, would it just be the Knesset that would be dismantled at gunpoint or would the courts and local governments also be arrested and replaced with members of some vague "peacekeeping force"?

Even the independent journalists the IDF actually allowed in (eg BBC) - and whose reporting they tightly control - have accused the IDF of fakery.

There’s a reason Israel has kept international journalists out of Gaza. If the world could see what’s happening via the MSM this war would have ended long ago.

@Lanabigbanana tge same thing can be asked to you. Brand new account in mn. Are you here for a rational discussion or an argument ?

I think criminals at every level should be pursued. Certainly that’s what happened after ww2 wasn’t it? Perhaps it is different where you are but most British people are brought up to believe that each of us is responsible for our actions in such a situation. If your whole government are found to have committed atrocities surely you would want them to be accountable? I don’t understand your mindset at all. If you think they are innocent then that would be demonstrable. If you think they are guilty then why would you want them in power?
It all seems so ill thought through. If the end plan is raze Gaza to the ground and kill or oust the remaining population that just isn’t acceptable. If it’s something else what IS that? Give me an alternative that stops the killing.

This is ridiculous. You’re suggesting that Britain effectively declares war with Israel. You’re also suggesting peacekeeping forces in Gaza, but peacekeeping can only start when fighting has stopped. Hamas are not going to just go away and accept a peacekeeping force. You’d have to defeat them first.

Don’t think the other poster has suggested to declare war
things uk can do today
request a ceasefire
stop providing weapons to both
declare Israel government accountable for the war crimes they’re committing. They same they did to Putin.

are we in war with Russia ? No.

You really need to compare like for like.
Firstly,WW2 involved countries with military capabilities of their own ( your figures are way off btw). It was called a world war for a reason. The clue is in the name.
Secondly, Gaza is 365 km² and has no organized, well trained army and has no navy, air force or bombs. They have no means to defend them or escape the IDF's onslaught. Besides, it isn't a country but a territory.
Finally, the Nazi ideology and Hamas' ideology are not comparable, in my opinion; I don't have the time to explain to you why but you can research it yourself.
Finally, I probably wouldn't be writing this if they hadn't been defeated as they came for one of my grandfather and other members of my family. He survived and went on to marry my grandmother.

None of that answers many of my questions.

What crimes is every single member of the Knesset guilty of, whether in government or not? And are the legislature and local government also guilty? And will democracy ever be restored?

Crimed should be pursued but you seem gleefully intent by punishing every single person in Israel.

The poster was suggesting deposing the Israeli government and ruling Israel with a peacekeeping force. This would only be achievable by waging war.

The poster wants the UN to invade Israel, depose the entire elected parliament (and possibly local government too, they won't say) and rule the entire country by force for an unspecified amount of time. Which sounds a lot like war to me.

It might have been in previous comments if so i apologise as haven’t seen them , but in that exact comment the poster doesn’t even mention UN but holding accountable a government for what they’re doing. Again more can be done than just going to war against them

"Yes I would imagine UN, followed by a babysitting interim government."