Documenting Israeli army racism and torture Thread 3

[Desertrose2023]

Hi all

This is the third installment of the thread to highlight, discuss and raise awareness of the crimes being committed by the Israeli army on a daily basis in Palestine.

for anyone interested in reviewing the first two threads on this topic they can be found here.

thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4943089-documenting-israeli-army-racism-and-torture

thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4956890-documenting-israeli-army-racism-and-torture-thread-2?page=1

I just welcome LJK now.
I think they’re here to learn, because they’ve been told to believe otherwise.

Saw this just now:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C3dgQzSOg77

Agree, I had quite a lot of this under a previous username. It’s like they saw me coming and I was getting rattled so I decided to change username and
to stay sane I just don’t respond anymore unless I feel it is a heartfelt query.

Im in awe of how most on here remain so polite.

One of the side comments states it’s really not that many people. However these things can start small and escalate. So cross fingers.

However I thinkNetanyahu really doesn’t care anyway. He ll carry on regardless.

Yes they were.

"Is your google broken"

Just plain rude.

I had to take time out. Even then elsewhere on charity fund raising posts such as Save the Children, there would be the same hate posted about Palestinian children. The same message over and over again. A few people would say they couldn't believe what they were reading, join the club.
The only small smile I had was when someone wrote a sardonic/ironic post about Israeli action in Gaza (on a Daily mail article) and all the hundreds of pro Israeli Gov bots liked it in error.

I don't know what to believe.

I have seen many pictures from Gaza via BBC, Al Jezeera, Sky News.

I have seen normal streets with buildings intact. Donkeys/mules pulling carts, cars going by, people going about their normal business. Shops and offices open.

If they are starving how is it they have food/water for donkeys/mules and petrol for cars??

@Ladyjanegreysketle Yeah its frustrating the BBC analysis a couple of weeks ago said that only 50% of buildings have been destroyed. I mean come on IDF step it up people want more.

Sorry my bad - damaged or destroyed. Wouldn't want to be inaccurate

That's not an answer.

I saw some drone footage from over Gaza.

In one area there were some buildings that had been totally razed to the ground, and beyond them an area of total devastation. (like a WW2 bomb site.)

Then a block away I saw a lovely house with palm trees in the garden and a green lawn and beyond that some intact properties.

I will try and find that footage.

@Ladyjanegreysketle genuine question, what point are you trying to make? The house standing has been lucky not to have been hit. Are you assuming it should all be flattened? Or you think that what's happening in gaza is made up because a few building s have not been bombed?

I'm saying what I saw.

I'm not trying to make a point.

I saw that Gaza was not total a smoking ruin.

That was my opinion from watching that drone video

What you really need to look at is the satellite photos of the whole of gaza

The destruction is patchy

Some parts eg northern gaza are largely razed to the ground - like a moonscape for miles and miles
Same for central Gaza City - mostly gone

Southern gaza still largely intact but every inch of ground is covered in tents

PS Remarkably despite all the destruction a tiny part of the economy still exists which the aid agencies are trying to keep alive - inside the shops you saw there is likely a small weird collection of goods for sale that bears no relationship to the kind of shop

Just like in any country some people have more material goods than others - so the majority people don't have cars or donkeys for personal use - some will be being used as small businesses mainly transporting evacuees

You'll be seeing less donkeys on your TV in future as they are now being killed for food

I've just seen this from three days ago. It's a short interview with a British volunteer doctor who worked at the European Hospital in Gaza for a few weeks over Christmas and into January. He's worked in Gaza but before but says he's never seen anything like it before.

Channel 4 seem to be doing a slightly better job than other British media outlets.

Satellite images of northern Gaza before October the 7th and a few weeks after. This video was posted on 26th October 2023. The damage depicted occured in a maximum of 19 days and we're now three and a half months on.

They're finding new and interesting ways to maim and kill civilians. Be careful with this video because you can see a man shot in the leg and he's crying out.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3dfbhOttMr/?igsh=MTA2NXQ1amh6N2d3cA==

Did they really just shoot a man in the leg to try out their new toy and then claim he was throwing stones? I've watched it twice and didn't see any stone throwing.

There's a lot of editing so who knows but there's no evidence of stone throwing in the video and obviously the IDF are always lying so I wouldn't take his word for it.

4 and a 10 days since 7-10 Oct

Either way, "red herring" is the operative word!

Neither being shot nor being imprisoned for a decade - both of which happen - is in any way, shape or form an appropriate or proportional response to stone throwing. Especially not seeing as Palestinians do, in fact, have such a thing as a right to resist the occupation [including by the means of armed struggle, by the way, which stone throwing at worst just about scratches the surface of].

I really wish we could get away from this "innocence" rhetoric! Not because I fail to distinguish between the innocent and the guilty* - but because the question is unequally applied and always used as yet another club to verbally bludgeon Palestinians with!

If, in mainstream discourse, we talked about Israelis the way we do about Palestinians, an overwhelming majority of Israeli adults would not qualify as "innocents". To start with, we could remove that status from any active duty soldiers - even those currently on leave - as well as any reservist. Up for debate next: former soldiers. And, remember, Israel has near-universal conscription!

Never mind the frankly insane number of civilians running around with assualt rifles. You can remove all of them, too!

And, by the way: I am most certainly not arguing we ought to be speaking about Israelis the way we do about Palestinians - the opposite in fact! We should be affording Palestinians the same benefit of "civilian unless actively involved in hostilities at the moment - and then some [see: dead soldiers being seen as "tragic" for example]" that Israelis typically get! As, for that matter, international humanitarian law demands!

Long story short: whether or not someone throws stones - on the territory of their home, where soldiers and settlers of an illegal occupation have no business being to start with, is just the wrong question to ask!

We need to start treating Palestinians as we do Israelis. Seriously!

Keep sending them. They don't need to answer, it's the fact that they receive them that matters. 😀 They may try to ignore one or two scathing emails, but they can't ignore a flood of them from loads of people.

I agree, keep emailing.

There is a vote this week for the ceasefire. I’ve written to my MP and added the tweet from Starmer asking for a ceasefire.

You want to see some stone-throwing - here you are, one young stone-thrower in training.

Those of you can can speak Arabic can hear what the father is saying;

@Ladyjanegreysketle yes you are right. Throwing stones. The idf better raise the whole place to the ground..... or even better if they just left the Palestinians alone and left they wouldn't be there to have stones thrown at them. Just a thought!