Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

[Toggenburgsaregreat]

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

No one argued they weren't genocidal or terrorists 🙄

What we are saying is that "The charter that people in Gaza, and many in the West Bank, voted for" equates to a very small proportion of the current population given only 17% voted for ANY party, and given it's such a small issue it's unfair to blame current Palestinians for voting in Hamas

No, you were laughing condescendingly at the idea of the quote being from Hamas charter. So I pointed out that Hamas were elected on the basis of the charter you were laughing about. That is all I was doing. You have since said that you don't like inaccuracies so I'm not sure why you are having a go at me for making an accurate and factual statement.

In that case you'll have to excuse me as I laugh condescendingly again - most of those quotes aren't from their original charter either. I mean, their original charter is pretty unpleasant, but it's also not the document must if that came from.

😂

Irrespective though, given only about 10% of Gazans would have viewed for them, it's pretty irrelevant now.

Reports that Haniyah is proposing a 10 to 15 year truce now.
Source is Channel 12 in Israel.

Sky news is reporting from a anonymous Israeli official that Hamas never said no to the deal that offered a pause in fighting in exchange for the release of hostages as this deal was never offered to them by Israel in the first place. They said talks are on going by mediatiors but nothing has reached the negotiation stage

Do you think it's likely for anything like that to be accepted? It seems highly unlikely to me personally

I agree, I don't think it will either.

I didn't say they were quotes from the charter. I said you were laughing at the idea that their charter would ever say anything like it. But you keep laughing away. Hope that makes you feel better about yourself :)

She was laughing at a misquoted hamas charter post, not at you hum. Not sure why you've started arguing the toss, but read the train of quots back as you have misunderstood I think

TBH only believe what's announced by the Qatari FM - certainly not Israeli TV channels

Netanyahu has hostage families in tents on the lawn of his private residence, demonstrations in Tel Aviv and hostage families invading the Knesset so desperately needs to be seen to be doing something for the hostages

Suspect that many of these so called deals are just fantasy/propaganda/mis-information to take the heat off him - and because the military interventions aren't bringing the hostages home

That link isn't working.

I wouldn't believe one word that came from a TV station that is funded by Qatar and is a mouthpiece for Hamas.

I find it strange that people are getting their panties in a bunch over what they call Israel's "discrimination against Palestinians" but are happy to watch a TV station funded by a country with an appalling human rights record.

I have detailed the main points from the article here and included the whole article below that.
"Discriminatory laws significantly limit the civil liberties of women, religious minorities, and LGBT+ people. For example, the male guardianship system requires women to get permission from male guardians to exercise basic rights such as get an education, marry, travel abroad, and access reproductive healthcare.
Similarly, LGBT+ people living in Qatar face extreme discrimination and harassment. Qatar’s Penal Code criminalizes a range of consensual same-sex sexual acts and includes jail terms for those found guilty. While Qatari authorities have said everyone will be welcome at the World Cup, regardless of their background, reports of discrimination against match attendees based on their LGBT+ expression have already emerged."

https://freedomhouse.org/article/long-shadow-qatars-human-rights-abuses

"We can all put pressure on our politicians and remind them they they serve us,"

I think you misunderstand how UK Parliament works. Yes, in part, they are there to serve their constituents but they all take an oath to serve our country and Parliament is not responsible for the Foreign Policy of other Sovereign Countries.

"they shouldn't be supporting anything other than a ceasefire" that's your opinion, which, of course, you are entitled to have.

And I'm not hiding anything. I have already said that I don't believe a ceasefire will achieve anything in the long term.

More info here; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/24/israel-hamas-strong-reasons-not-extend-gaza-ceasefire

Here is the images for Israelis blocking the aid entering gaza
https://twitter.com/RashadAlhindi/status/1750112718630064494

Nor for me 🤔

I'll try again

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

The translation of the German text is - "Hundreds of Israelis preventing trucks carrying humanitarian aid from passing into Gaza at the Karem Abusalem border Crossing"

A closer inspection of the pictures shows a handful of Israelis present. The crossing isn't open and there are armed soldiers on one side. If you look carefully you will see, beyond the gates, one protester is being manhandled out of the way by (Israeli ?) guards.

A misleading tweet just put out to inflame opinions on both sides of the issue.

Believe whatever you want that follows your narrative.

im sure you’ll find a way to say this one is not preventing
https://twitter.com/MOSSADil/status/1750364255214326249

Are you denying that this is happening?

It was widely reported earlier in the week by various reputable news sources - it has happened more than once - they are desperate people wanting their family members home - also invaded a session of the Knesset too

The intended purpose is to put pressure on Hamas in the hostage negotiations which I felt was a bit mis-guided until the Egyptian PM yesterday said the same thing about Israel using humanitarian aid to put pressure on the negotiations - now I'm not so sure

Weaponisation of the humanitarian aid has also been widely discussed before

.

Works for me. Interesting read actually. I had not realised that when Hamas refers to the "zionist entity" they specified that doesn't mean Jewish people. The bit about the "European project" was interesting too.

Thanks for that.

I can see this

10 "Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine. Its religious, historic and civilisational status is fundamental to the Arabs, Muslims and the world at large. Its Islamic and Christian holy places belong exclusively to the Palestinian people and to the Arab and Islamic Ummah. Not one stone of Jerusalem can be surrendered or relinquished. "

causing a fundamental disagreement and these

"25. Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people.
26. Hamas rejects any attempt to undermine the resistance and its arms. It also affirms the right of our people to develop the means and mechanisms of resistance. Managing resistance, in terms of escalation or de-escalation, or in terms of diversifying the means and methods, is an integral part of the process of managing the conflict and should not be at the expense of the principle of resistance."

(My italics)

show that, however much Hamas dress it up in words, they seek the annihilation of the State of Israel.

that's shocking, especially the actual tweet thanking people for disrupting aid!

Unbelievable!

It's a fake -

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/07/israel-hamas-war-fake-mossad-account-creates-online-confusion

The account might not be mossads official account
but 1. Israelis blocked the aid yesterday

1. Who ever manages that account was thanking those in 1.
2. Again what you think about this doesn’t matter , Israelis blocked the enter of aid yesterday

Oh, thanks. I wish twitter would remove these accounts, not blue tick them

They are trying,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67097020