Towards a sustainable peace

[mids2019]

I think for a peace to be obtained constructive dialogue has to be started but in order for this to happen in my opinion Palestine has to acknowledge and their leaders publically denounce the heinous acts of October 7th and make clear such an event will never be repeated.

There have been to many senior Palestinian politicians wishing their grievances to be heard without mentioning October 7th and this will only have the effect of enraging Israel.

We need Palestinian leadership that is willing to sit down with Israeli leaders and from the outset denounce violence specifically making it absolutely clear there will be no 'revenge' for the current Israeli incursion.

We also need to be pragmatic and understand Israel will not be giving Gaza any financial aid so it will be up to the richer gulf states primarily to discuss funding some sort of rebuilding within Gaza. Also eventually there needs to be opportunities for Palestinians to emigrate in order to gain jobs and allow future generations to thrive. I think ultimately you would have to view Gaza as a city state with a multi million rebuilding package coming from those supportive nations in the middle east.

We also need to ensure education in Gaza is such that anti semitiism isn't promoted from a young age so we have a chance for a generation of Palestinians growing up knowing the only way forward is peace.

I think there is a peace to be had if both sides want it and are willing to negotiate positivist with a commitment to prevent terrorism and ensure there is security for both parties.

The British didn’t slaughter thousands of innocent Irish children though, did they?

This isn't the thread for this discussion but you often misrepresent what happened in the North and to say that the British army didn't leave is just false.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/aug/01/northernireland.military

Ok, so want peace but don't want parity?
Can you see how that wouldn't go down well?

Don't you see that Israel in charge of Gazas security is like leaving Hamas in charge in Israel's security? You can't leave the victims of violence with their aggressors/oppressors on either side and work towards peace.

You can't bomb a people into truly accepting subjugation. The military side of enforcing peace on both sides would best be removed from the equation. A coalition of military support could defer other countries from taking advantage, and Israel could do be permitted to keep it's military for external use, should it be attacked

And yes, I agree it's never going to happen. That doesn't stop it being a way to defuse a lot of the anger and pave a way forward for peace.

Then why shouldn’t Palestine have similar military powers ? Why should they live I fear of Israel controlling their air and sea borders, taking more and more of their land with the settlers and their violent ways. People need to understand the complete one sidedness of this situation, until this is recognised and reviewed sadly nothing will change.

On the contrary, what I've said about Northern Ireland is easily checkable. You can look up Palace Barracks and Thiepval Barracks yourself online.

Or alternatively come to Northern Ireland to see the bases for yourself. You won't get in without security clearance and soldiers are positioned at the entrance.

So the British Army still has bases in Northern Ireland and is actively deployed whenever required too. Between 2014 and 2017, SAS and SRR were deployed undercover against dissident Irish Republicans terrorist groups.

You've got a very funny definition of leaving....🤣🤦‍♂️

Sorry might have tagged the wrong poster there.

Thanks for proving my point that the British Army never left Northern Ireland.

Next time...read your own links beyond the headline! 🤦‍♂️

It's OK to admit you said something that's incorrect you know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Banner

And let's not forget that many would argue Netanyahu was largely responsible for creating the political environment that fueled Rabin's assassination. He did and said some spectacularly inflammatory things both before and after. The Palestinians need a leadership that will negotiate with their best interests at heart and a commitment to peace, but Netanyahu has consistently derailed any attempts at peace and actively fueled division and conflict, never mind his current actions. He needs to go if there is to be any chance of peace (ideally to the Hague).

Oops, attached now.

@Babyboomtastic I like the idea. It's a bit like gun ownership. When guns are more available you get more shootings. I agree it won't happen, but I think it's the best option to reduce the violence overall. Plus the invasion of the WB would be hard to enforce without the army, which means there's less reason for violence there.

Because, as you know, Palestine's militants would carry out unprovoked attacks on the Jewish state next door as they want them gone.

Simple.

Palestine will be disarmed and we should then have a lasting peace. It's the only way.

Yes like anywhere else in Britain. The North is part of the UK so like any country on earth there'll be some sort of army presence.

The wartime presence ended in 2007 and the IRA decommissioned. So both sides disarmed after the war. I don't know why you're arguing with me.

Yet I'm not incorrect! Operation Banner itself IS over and Bessbrook is empty of soldiers.

But Palace and Thiepval Barracks are still British Army bases in Northern Ireland in addition to an Mi5 base.

Attachment from your own link. As I said, you've a funny concept of what leaving is....🤣

Disingenuous!

You claimed the British Army LEFT.

I showed they did not as they still have bases here and still actively operate via SAS and SRR.

And it's embarrassing to call it a war too. It was a terrorist campaign of violence.

"No such explicit commitment in the signed agreements" in terms of the settlements.

Balanced view here from both sides. Worth reading. Jewish site - no what? It's a fair and balanced view as much as Al Jazeerah is.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/why-the-oslo-accords-failed/

Jesus. We were talking about post conflict decommissioning. You made out that only the IRA were disarmed after the war. The soldiers posted to the north because of the conflict left in 2007! So both sides were "disarmed" for want of a better word.

I'm not arguing with you any more. It's ridiculous.

No, it will go underground again, what a ridiculously naive view.

Why should they be disarmed when they are living in fear of being imprisoned, losing their homes, being killed by IDF snipers? On what planet should they just lie down and die ?
What right has Israel got to dictate how they live their lives on their land ?
In Gaza, an open air prison which is now flattened with no infrastructure and starving orphaned children, in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, with trigger-happy murdering settlers and IDF snipers causing a daily risk to life.

Why do you actually think Palestinian ”militants” feel like carrying out “unprovoked attacks” on Israel (your own words highlighted) honestly, why do you think ? Do you expect them not to bite back ?

I lived through the worst of the troubles, I’m with you on this point.

No slaughter - not intended at all so it is not a slaughter. Hamas putting them in the line of fire. How about some ire for Hamas?

What about the 70 year history of Israel launching unprovoked attacks on Palestinians? What about the policy of 'mowing the grass'?

Both sides attack each other. Demilitarising just one side will never work because the threat from both sides needs to be eliminated before either side can trust each other

Ps: if the idea of Israel demilitarising horrifies your because if the risk it could put them under, then why do you think it's safe for the Palestinians to demiliarise with a nuclear powered enemy controlling them?

Sorry @floodlightonwhatisright But how do you think withholding food and water from children is not intending to kill them? It's a fairly obvious result that they will die. Or bombing hospitals where they are in incubators or wounded.

I don't think these are equivalent, sorry.

No, it will go underground again, what a ridiculously naive view.

This is the bottom line in my opinion. Israel can continue to belligerently pursue its agenda of land acquisition but this will never bring about peace. The Arab nations will not fight against Israel but the jihadists will and people who are oppressed and marginalised are far more susceptible to radicalisation.

Simple 🤷‍♀️

Yes, slaughter, that is the correct word.