SOCIALIST REVOLUTIONARIES FOR HAMAS?

[Trulywonderful]

'On 10 October, three days later after the attack, another Socialist Worker article was literally titled “Rejoice as Palestinian resistance humiliates racist Israel”.'

Sadly, there have actually been a lot of people, online and in real life, who have stated that the killing of Palestinian children is, in their eyes, acceptable collateral damage. There have been a lot of people saying the deaths of thousands of people are acceptable, that it's 'only' thousands, that the numbers aren't credible in their opinions, saying that what's going on is "precision targeting", justifying the detention and traumatising of innocent people, and so on. I've been told things that I know are happening, apparently aren't (spoiler: they absolutely are).

There is a lot of denial, minimisation and hate towards Palestinians, and a lot of justification of the actions of a government and military force who are openly attempting to destroy an oppressed people. For a lot of people, the only peace options they seem willing to accept for Palestinians are total surrender, exile from what remains of their homes, or death.

@Scirocco That may be the case in other places, and in those instances , your points should be mentioned. But nobody on this thread has justified the onslaught of Gaza. Nobody on this thread has minimized any Palestinian's trauma or oppression. Nobody on this thread has asked the Palestinians for exile or death. You are preaching to the choir.

The posters you have aimed your argument at are showing the propaganda, anti-Semitism and discourse against Israeli civilians and Jewish people. Anti-Semitism which has been continuously denied in real life, on Mumsnet, and on this thread.

@WibbleWobbleFlop exactly so why feel the need to do it? Sigh

@stomachameleon I consider it worth pointing out because people have posted these things on this forum. So unless we take 'Nobody here' to refer solely to this thread, it's incorrect to say no poster has said those things. I have read a lot of hate on this board. People who have posted on this thread have not corrected others spreading hate elsewhere on the board, and indeed I have seen posts from people who have posted on this thread elsewhere which have expressed the views I mentioned.

@Scirocco I can understand the desire to quash anti-Palestinian views and rhetoric, which I have also seen (and called out) on this forum. While I don't recall the posters in this thread having stated those views on other threads, I could of course be mistaken. That said, this thread is about the overt anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish rhetoric as attached in the OP. I am actually about to start a separate thread about the false rhetoric about Palestinians and Israelis (as well as Jewish people worldwide). I would be happy to discuss your very valid arguments there so the OP's thread can keep its focus.

@Scirocco I am talking about this thread as it's derailing because it's not what we are talking about is it?
And perhaps If you have seen individual posters making diapering remarks on other threads you should take issue with them on there.

I think a shift in public attitudes is starting to take place

One post clarifying something previously said does not a derailment make.

I'm not sure what a 'diapering' remark is, but if people need help with nappies, there are parenting boards available and I'm happy to respond to posts there.

If you're asking whether I point out hate speech elsewhere, yes I do.

Lol sorry *disparaging....
Although I am sure your advice would be welcomed there!

Read your initial post. It had nothing to do with this thread and there are any number where you could clarify your position.

Not sure why my post was deleted, especially when the one accusing us of Killing children and all the rambling walls of antisemitism stayed.

Because blood libel, harassing Jewish posters and making sweeping generalisations are all ok if you’re sufficiently morally superior and sanctimonious.

There are many occasions on which you and others have posted to state that you think someone has written something that's incorrect. Is that also derailment, or is it only derailment if you don't like what's being said?

If you would rather keep all disagreement out of the threads you like, you could always start a Corrections thread for people to post in when they think others are incorrect about something, thus keeping actual debate or discussion to a minimum and preventing the threads you like from including any corrections or differing views.

@Scirocco sorry to Labour the point but it wasn't a correction or differing view though was it?

If you feel that is such a good idea that you would suggest it to me feel free? If you can point out why the diatribe you launched into is linked to the socialist worker articles then I will leave well alone.

Disagreement is fine if it's relevant. Your whole first paragraph was about 'a lot of people' who say and do xyz. No link to what we are talking about.

Wanting to discuss the 'denial, minimisation and hate' towards Palestine none of which we were talking about.

Do you have anything you would like to say about the socialist worker articles?

I would have thought it was pretty clear that, rather than a diatribe, I was correcting what I consider to have been an incorrect statement that 'Nobody here' has condoned the killing of Palestinian children and that 'every poster' has condemned the actions of the Israeli government and military.

Do I have anything I want to say about the Socialist Worker articles? Yes, but I suspect you have no genuine desire to actually discuss it and would instead just try to find something in my words to which you could take offence. I'll save my criticisms of that paper for discussions with the organisers of our local protests, with whom I have already raised my concerns.

'Resistance', it was being given out at marches and protests

I don't think I what to know what this contains, the title of the booklet is at least a warning to others of content.

If you don't want to discuss the socialist worker paper then maybe don't click on a thread about the socialist worker paper.

At the top it says "A socialist worker pamphlet" I don't think you can see it clearly here

I can honestly say this pamphlet DOES NOT REPRESENT all socialists and neither does the articles in the vile newsletter from the very far gone left

@Girahim , I actually did want to discuss the socialist worker paper, which was why I clicked on the thread. However, I have no burning desire to engage in that discussion with someone whose intentions would likely be an attempt to twist anything said.

@Scirocco would leads me to wonder why you wouldn't lead with that.... discussing the thread title?

In a sea of double negatives I am not sure who is condoning what and who is or isn't doing what your accusing Them of.....

Struggling to see a sea of double negatives, but if you point them out to me I can correct them if needed. I've come off a 48 hour shift at work so may be a bit sleep-deprived still.

Who is condoning? Some posters on this site.
What are they condoning? The killing of Palestinian children.
Who is doing the killing? The IDF seem to be primarily responsible for firing the weapons killing Palestinian children.

was correcting what I consider to have been an incorrect statement that 'Nobody here' has condoned the killing of Palestinian children and that 'every poster' has condemned the actions of the Israeli government and military.

Your quote love...

And no answer on why you decided not to comment on the actual thread.

Ah, that should be incorrect statements. The statements being 'Nobody here...' and 'every poster...'.

I've already explained I have no desire to discuss that with you as I don't think your intentions there would be genuine.