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Conflict in the Middle East

Opinion piece in newspaper -RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews.

1000 replies

floodlightonwhatisright · 20/12/2023 16:23

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12878659/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-marches-intimidate-British-Jews-tolerate-hatred-streets.html

He raises some interesting ideas.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
Livinginanotherworld · 29/12/2023 22:46

Skyisthelimit7 · 29/12/2023 22:07

I would suggest that whoever put up that petition is anti-Semitic.

Seriously ?? Why the hell would you think that ? Are we all anti semitic because we want a ceasefire ?

What do you call those that don’t want a ceasefire ?

Trulywonderful · 29/12/2023 22:48

MercanDede · 29/12/2023 22:39

It is too bad the ceasefire protest at the new WTC in NYC was overshadowed by the protest simultaneously held in Times Square:

“The march took place simultaneously as thousands of older Jewish pro-Palestinian protesters — wearing all-black apparel and marching to a drumbeat — silently laid to rest 500 effigies of dead children in the middle of Times Square to mourn the scores of Gazan and Israeli children killed after Hamas attacked Israel.
About 1,500 people marched in a dual-file processional funeral line from Bryant Park before placing the bundles on the pavement in a solemn call for a cease-fire and an end to US military aid to Israel.
The lament was initiated by a group of Jewish elders to call “attention to the dire, incalculable human reality of the siege of Gaza by the Israeli military supported by the United States,” according to organizers.”

You see if you are going to have a protest I understand this type of thing more. In London there was one that was more visual like this. It makes people feel an emotional and stop to think. Far more powerful and to the point than shouting outside McDonalds or inappropriate marches. This is how to change protest and make people listen.

Livinginanotherworld · 29/12/2023 22:50

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2023 15:26

And the videos of people being attacked because of carrying anti-Hamas placards?

Of course the press want to publish things like that, they seek it out. There is always one rotten apple in the bottom of the barrel, a tiny minority percent that’s all, and the police can spot them and watch them like hawks.

MercanDede · 29/12/2023 22:51

Trulywonderful · 29/12/2023 22:44

Think you are maybe over thinking what I said. He was still alive therefore tried. Hence I said survivor because I have no idea what exactly his part was other than he went to court and a study mate plus 2 other flat mates or house mates or room mates or whatever said these things are what he said. Yes I do realise he was not someone with a lead role in the attack. Not totally sure why you home in on these details of my post but there you have it. I just said the facts that I am aware of were heard in court. All of which is true and did I think my post made it clear I was repeating what was said by the witnesses against him in court. So hope that is satisfactory to you.

Not sure you quite got the point of the original post and why I mentioned these things but hokey dokey.

I did not hone in on anything but:
The 9/11, the target was selected by Al Qaeda because it was seen as Jewish.

That was what I responded to. It has been you that keeps hanging your hat on a few words of a nobody that was eventually convicted on the basis of guilt by association.

I said survivor because I have no idea what exactly his part
Glad to see you admit you have no idea whether his personal AntiSemitic views had anything to do with why the leadership of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan selected their targets for 9/11.

MercanDede · 29/12/2023 22:52

Trulywonderful · 29/12/2023 22:48

You see if you are going to have a protest I understand this type of thing more. In London there was one that was more visual like this. It makes people feel an emotional and stop to think. Far more powerful and to the point than shouting outside McDonalds or inappropriate marches. This is how to change protest and make people listen.

Yes, I agree. It’s much more respectful and dignified. I agree that shouting and violence- a mob mentality in the streets is going to be frightening, especially for the Jewish community.

Parkingt111 · 29/12/2023 22:55

A protest I felt was very heartfelt that was also generally overlooked was one that happened in November outside downing Street by healthcare workers.
It was to highlight the deaths of the huge number of medical staff that have been killed in Gaza. Sadly the number has almost doubled since this vigil

Opinion piece in newspaper -RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews.
Livinginanotherworld · 29/12/2023 22:59

Itsalmostherenow · 29/12/2023 18:48

I agree. I think people are being used and don't realise it. Counter terrorism have their work cut out. I hope they don't miss anything or anyone.

I guess people think they are 'doing something ' maybe not what they think though

I think that’s very insulting to the people who turnout every week in all weathers. Do you think we are all stupid and being taken in ? Seriously?

We are certainly not being used, but this is the agenda that has been pushed by the Pro-Israeli people and the far right media. This is what makes British Jewish people scared to leave their houses. It’s an agenda they are pushing to make out that we are all mad raving Hamas supporters. That we are dangerous, it’s not safe, and we are planning terrorist attacks. It’s ridiculous, we just want a ceasefire to stop the endless slaughter of children and for people of Gaza to have the right to live safely in their own land.

Trulywonderful · 29/12/2023 23:01

MercanDede · 29/12/2023 22:51

I did not hone in on anything but:
The 9/11, the target was selected by Al Qaeda because it was seen as Jewish.

That was what I responded to. It has been you that keeps hanging your hat on a few words of a nobody that was eventually convicted on the basis of guilt by association.

I said survivor because I have no idea what exactly his part
Glad to see you admit you have no idea whether his personal AntiSemitic views had anything to do with why the leadership of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan selected their targets for 9/11.

I can hand on heart say I don't know him personally and didn't have anything to do with the planning of 9/11. So have no insider knowledge, yes

😁

Trulywonderful · 29/12/2023 23:02

My last post was one I didn't even think I would be writing 😂

Abhannmor · 30/12/2023 00:03

plusjamais · 29/12/2023 16:48

@Abhannmor Have you got a reference for that figure?

It's an estimate from Jewish Bloc I saw somewhere.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 00:17

Abhannmor · 30/12/2023 00:03

It's an estimate from Jewish Bloc I saw somewhere.

So you mean the same people that are Jewish Voice for Labour then

Hokey Dokey because the JVL are well known to representing the voice of the Jewish community in the UK aren't they.........

Oh and the Star of David made out of a watermelon that the Jewish Bloc are using as an image isn't offensive at all!!!

BigandBeefy · 30/12/2023 05:40

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 02:24

90% of the surveyed Jews would avoid city centers during major anti-Israel demonstrations

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-776069

I would how many would avoid the city during pro ceasefire or pro Palestinian demonstrations? That probably would have been a more topical question to ask.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 11:15

BigandBeefy · 30/12/2023 05:40

I would how many would avoid the city during pro ceasefire or pro Palestinian demonstrations? That probably would have been a more topical question to ask.

Edited

Like all polls and the analysis of the data yes everything is in the question. However as the poster was trying to say most Jewish People are fine with the marches I think even with a differently worded question you would see judging by this that most really are not OK. Also most Jewish people I know do see these as anti Israeli marches anyway. I mean have you looked at a large number of the signs saying Dismantle Israel, put Israeli in the bin or the chant that a lot of people view as calling for the dismantling of Israel

So overall I believe you are picking at straws that are irrelevant

If you look at the article I got the data from in the link it clearly says that nearly half the Jewish people polled talk about leaving the UK because of the rise in antisemitism, plus a few more facts. You could go ahead and argue that these marches have nothing to do with the rise in antisemitism but I think it is a large contributing factor in the reported incidents/ arrest rates and the worries the Jewish community have about Jew hate in the UK

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 13:44

Itsalmostherenow · 29/12/2023 17:56

I have noticed that people I mix with whether work or social don't support or attend the marches due to the radical elements. The counter terrorism group really need to keep a watch on things.

you don't imagine they are? I think you can sleep easy on that score.
Events which certain terrorist groups MIGHT be minded to exploit/infiltrate are actually a gift to the security services. I have seen spotters on marches I attended when younger.

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 13:50

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 02:24

90% of the surveyed Jews would avoid city centers during major anti-Israel demonstrations

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-776069

That "survey" comes from the Campaign Against Antisemitism. Despite their eminently reasonable name it is clear to anyone who reads their communications/press releases that the organisation has a very definite agenda amidst some no doubt good work.
I would encourage anyone to sign up to their mailings for an insight.

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 13:54

Livinginanotherworld · 29/12/2023 22:59

I think that’s very insulting to the people who turnout every week in all weathers. Do you think we are all stupid and being taken in ? Seriously?

We are certainly not being used, but this is the agenda that has been pushed by the Pro-Israeli people and the far right media. This is what makes British Jewish people scared to leave their houses. It’s an agenda they are pushing to make out that we are all mad raving Hamas supporters. That we are dangerous, it’s not safe, and we are planning terrorist attacks. It’s ridiculous, we just want a ceasefire to stop the endless slaughter of children and for people of Gaza to have the right to live safely in their own land.

Got to agree with this. There are a small number of very regular posters on here whose posts just spread alarm and fear. One might think they welcome such alarm and fear. Hell if I just read their posts and nothing else I might be afraid to go into city centres myself.
Stay safe folks, happy new year.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:55

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 13:50

That "survey" comes from the Campaign Against Antisemitism. Despite their eminently reasonable name it is clear to anyone who reads their communications/press releases that the organisation has a very definite agenda amidst some no doubt good work.
I would encourage anyone to sign up to their mailings for an insight.

So you believe them to have not done a poll and it is a lie?

Or

You believe the Jewish people that took the poll are not telling the truth?

What is it you are saying about the poll of Jewish people in the UK

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:57

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 13:54

Got to agree with this. There are a small number of very regular posters on here whose posts just spread alarm and fear. One might think they welcome such alarm and fear. Hell if I just read their posts and nothing else I might be afraid to go into city centres myself.
Stay safe folks, happy new year.

You think all the Jewish people in the UK are on mumsnet reading posts and that is why they are worried about antisemitism and these marches?

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 14:02

Skyisthelimit7 · 29/12/2023 22:07

I would suggest that whoever put up that petition is anti-Semitic.

returning to this place (hence my posts in bursts) so your post has I think been addressed by others, but to add my own tuppence:
why would you "suggest" that the person is anti semitic? On what basis? Is calling for a ceasefire anti semitic? If so why?
My impression from memory is that it was not an "appeal"/notice from an individual (one would not expect Oxfam to allow such things anyway) but from Oxfam itself - ie official.
FYI it was in the window of an Oxfam shop in a northern city I was very recently only visiting so I cannot take another look. I do get around though so will look at any other Oxfam shops on my travels if I can. Maybe you could as well. I am sure you could always ask about any notice you see. Free speech/polite questioning is allowed I think. Still.

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 14:05

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:57

You think all the Jewish people in the UK are on mumsnet reading posts and that is why they are worried about antisemitism and these marches?

No of course I don't think all Jewish people in the UK are on mumsnet. Nor do I think that you represent/speak for all Jewish people in the UK.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 14:07

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 14:05

No of course I don't think all Jewish people in the UK are on mumsnet. Nor do I think that you represent/speak for all Jewish people in the UK.

I think you need to read the post you wrote again then because it doesn't make any sense unless you are saying that

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 14:09

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 13:55

So you believe them to have not done a poll and it is a lie?

Or

You believe the Jewish people that took the poll are not telling the truth?

What is it you are saying about the poll of Jewish people in the UK

I am saying that the organisation has an agenda.
A very clear one.
It is pretty clear from reading their communications.
The organisation has been criticised by certain Jewish groups and Jewish people and Margaret Hodge in the past.

This is the organisation that I believe said that London was a no go zone for Jewish folk. A clear bit of communication overreach if I ever saw one.

and of course anti semitism stinks.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 14:19

Offwiththecircus · 30/12/2023 14:09

I am saying that the organisation has an agenda.
A very clear one.
It is pretty clear from reading their communications.
The organisation has been criticised by certain Jewish groups and Jewish people and Margaret Hodge in the past.

This is the organisation that I believe said that London was a no go zone for Jewish folk. A clear bit of communication overreach if I ever saw one.

and of course anti semitism stinks.

But what do you think about the results of the poll?

Do you believe the organisation is lying?

Do you believe the Jewish people talking it lied?

Do you think despite your views on the organisation the poll truthful?

Or something else?

I am not clear what you are saying about the poll itself. I mean I don't like are government but I still look at the results of a public census and take in the results of what they say

Coyoacan · 30/12/2023 14:45

Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread, but I do worry about the sociopaths in our midst who think that the only reason people go to march against the carpet-bombing of 2 million people is out of hatred for another sector of society. I mean, what the actual fuck is going on in their minds? To prove that you don't hate Jews, you have to support the genocide of Palestinians. What if I am against genocide in general?

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