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Conflict in the Middle East
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20
TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 17/12/2023 14:17

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 14:14

The key words are "Catholic authorities say".

What are you wanting to see? Shot up dead women’s bodies? How can they prove it to you.

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 14:22

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 17/12/2023 14:17

What are you wanting to see? Shot up dead women’s bodies? How can they prove it to you.

No but "they say" is not evidence.

Simple.

Silence1 · 17/12/2023 14:22

@floodlightonwhatisright Maybe they didn't want to pop up with their camera and say "cheese for the camera IDF" in case they got a very likely bullet to the head .
Plus if you took time to read you would see they are struggling to keep communications open due to lack of power

OP posts:
Silence1 · 17/12/2023 14:23

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 14:22

No but "they say" is not evidence.

Simple.

Eye witness reports are taken as evidence

OP posts:
Efacsen · 17/12/2023 14:25

BBC are quite happy with Layla Moran's account who they interviewed at some length - just ignore @floodlightonwhatisright who is just being disruptive and de-railing the thread

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 14:37

Efacsen · 17/12/2023 14:25

BBC are quite happy with Layla Moran's account who they interviewed at some length - just ignore @floodlightonwhatisright who is just being disruptive and de-railing the thread

The same BBC who apologised for saying Israel bombed a hospital when it didn't.

We should not accept eye witness accounts but believe what you like

feralunderclass · 17/12/2023 15:06

FOJN · 17/12/2023 09:07

It's a pattern of behaviour for the IDF; kill civilians and destroy anything which provides the rest with the means to survive.

I'm struggling to accept this is happening and both the US and UK keep supplying Israel with the means to continue it's assault on Gaza. It's not just the Israeli government who need to be dealt with by the ICC.

It's exactly this, Israel want to supress Palestinian identity and prevent all means of self determination. They will not stop until OPT is free from Palestinians, either by killing them or driving them out.

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 15:17

The IDF has been asked to comment by CNN and other news agencies. I think once they explain what's going on at the church it will be clearer. Of course, if they don't explain themselves we can only go with the information currently available.

Cameron's article states that 'too many civilians have been killed', and that this conflict can not drag on and on.' He might not be stating ceasefire now, but it is a definite shift from full throated support for continuing violence.

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 16:11

From the Guardian:

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 16:12

Pope Francis condemns Israeli killings of civilians at Gaza church

Pope Francis has condemned the Israeli killings of two Christian women who were sheltering at a Gaza church, suggesting Israel was using “terrorism” tactics across the strip.

Reuters reports:

At his weekly blessing, Francis referred to a statement about an incident on Saturday by the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Catholic authority in the Holy Land.

The Patriarchate said an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) “sniper” killed the two women, whom the pope named as Nahida Khalil Anton and her daughter Samar, as they walked to a convent of nuns in the compound of the Holy Family Parish.

The Patriarchate statement said seven other people were shot and wounded as they tried to protect others.

“I continue to receive very grave and painful news from Gaza,” Francis said. “Unarmed civilians are the objects of bombings and shootings. And this happened even inside the Holy Family parish complex, where there are no terrorists, but families, children, people who are sick or disabled, nuns.”

Francis said they were killed by “snipers” and also referred to the Patriarchate’s statement that a convent of nuns of the order founded by Mother Teresa was damaged by Israeli tank fire.

“Some would say ‘It is war. It is terrorism.’ Yes, it is war. It is terrorism,” he said. An Israeli foreign ministry spokesperson said the incident was still under review and had no immediate comment on the pope’s words.

It was the second time in less than a month that the pope used the word “terrorism” while speaking of events in Gaza.

On Nov. 22, after meeting separately with Israeli relatives of hostages held by Hamas and Palestinians with family in Gaza, he said: “This is what wars do. But here we have gone beyond wars. This is not war. This is terrorism.”

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/12/2023 16:20

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 14:37

The same BBC who apologised for saying Israel bombed a hospital when it didn't.

We should not accept eye witness accounts but believe what you like

I don’t automatically believe people including the BBC but I think Layla Moran has quite a lot of credibility.

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 16:30

I saw this update on Layla Moran's twitter

Update: a tank has taken position outside the church and the building opposite has been taken. The people inside have died. There are snipers at every window pointing into the church. Still shooting anyone emerging from buildings to use eg toilets. Still no food or water.

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 16:33

I know that naturally most people find it upsetting to read that people are trapped without food and water. But one thing that's not really focused on is lack of toilets or access to it.
I find reading that really upsetting as it add an extra layer of humiliation
Especially for women who are menstruating

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 16:34

@Parkingt111 Many thanks. I'm not on twitter. It sounds horrendous for the people there, Why are they firing on them, I wonder?

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 16:37

Indeed the prevention of toilet access is distressing, particularly for disabled people too.

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 16:46

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 16:34

@Parkingt111 Many thanks. I'm not on twitter. It sounds horrendous for the people there, Why are they firing on them, I wonder?

I don't know
There are no safe places in Gaza. The Israeli spokesperson hasn't said yet but I think after Pope Francis has weighed in too, that we may hear soon enough

MissyB1 · 17/12/2023 16:55

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 16:34

@Parkingt111 Many thanks. I'm not on twitter. It sounds horrendous for the people there, Why are they firing on them, I wonder?

Because I think they have a problem with Christian’s as well as Muslims.

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 17:03

@MissyB1 I shouldn't think any Palestinian is treated differently, even if they are atheists!

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 17:11

But I still want to hear the IDF explanation for an action which is deeply distressing to Christians around the world. But then again, so much killing has happened with no explanation, so I don't hold out much hope.

MissyB1 · 17/12/2023 17:17

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 17:03

@MissyB1 I shouldn't think any Palestinian is treated differently, even if they are atheists!

Yes I agree, I was just trying to make the broader point that Christians are also often discriminated against in Israel.

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 17:24

@MissyB1 Yes, I've seen some documentaries about that issue.

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 17:27

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 16:30

I saw this update on Layla Moran's twitter

Update: a tank has taken position outside the church and the building opposite has been taken. The people inside have died. There are snipers at every window pointing into the church. Still shooting anyone emerging from buildings to use eg toilets. Still no food or water.

Where is the evidence from her "update" on Twitter? She isn't there is she?

EveryFrogHasItsDay · 17/12/2023 17:30

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 17:27

Where is the evidence from her "update" on Twitter? She isn't there is she?

Is it your assumption that her family are telling her lies about their situation?

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:45

@floodlightonwhatisright no she isn't there but she has family there.
I did say that this was her update and I wasn't misleading in making it seem like it was from MSM for example.

People who know her can decide if they think she is saying the truth or lying as with the absence of independant journalists in Gaza it normally takes awhile before these updates are reported on MSM
She is doing whatever she can to raise awareness of the situation in the hopes there will be a intervention. As by the time official statements come out it could be too late for others who are in danger at the church right now which includes her family.

Can you not see how desperate it is to be here and have your loved ones there and there is nothing you can do? Atleast she is doing what she can

EasterIssland · 18/12/2023 09:05

.

Layla Moran's family trapped in Catholic church and under attack from IDF