Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

What did Hamas think they would achieve through October 7?

178 replies

CroccyWoccy · 14/12/2023 09:17

I don’t normally post in this section so please forgive the potentially naive or badly phrased question (I don’t like the word ‘achieve’ but struggling to think of a better one.

Without wanting to get into whether any particular actions are justified or proportionate, it seems that it was entirely foreseeable that an attack such as the one that took place on Oct 7 would trigger an Israeli response on the scale we have seen.

With that in mind, I cannot understand Hamas’s motivation for planning such an attack, given the outcome of death and destruction with Gaza was inevitable? Or by trying to attribute some kind of rational strategy of cause and effect to Hamas, am I completely misunderstanding how they operate?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
laughinglemons · 14/12/2023 23:00

And egypt?

webbydeb · 14/12/2023 23:03

@MercanDede Hamas are in tunnels and none of the illegal bombs launched would come close enough to penetrate the tunnels. These are targeted at civilians

laughinglemons · 14/12/2023 23:14

Hamas wouldn’t let the people leave even if the international community was arranging boats and the check points were open.
Everytime i put the washing machine on i think about the poor mothers in Gaza and can’t imagine the horror.

Is Hamas justified in plotting to attack Jewish people in Europe - see the news today. Plots across 3 countries intercepted … Israel is an easy target. Surely this doesn’t mean Jewish people should be persecuted all over the world - with the collateral damage to anyone who is near by?

And if Hamas achieved their goal of wiling out the state of Israel and all Jewish people - that is genocide, then who would be next?

I don’t support war. How does this stop? There are Israelis and non Israelis who want peace. Let’s be grateful we and our children can sleep peacefully tonight.

webbydeb · 14/12/2023 23:24

My theory is, Netanyahu wiping out Gaza until Hamas comes out which is a genocide because of the civilian's or Netanyahu is obliterating Gaza until the Gazan's have nothing left of their land, children and exhaust them to the point to seek refuge which is also a genocide.

Back to Hamas. I feel they work more for Israel than Palestine but for the sake of the argument, I guess they wanted to draw other nations in but Iran went really quiet didn't they? One would argue if Israel is allowed to do so draw other countries in then why shouldn't Hamas. Either way, I don't believe there would be any resolution since the whole world is so divided. I'f there was a fair impartial mechanism that could hold those responsible from both sides accountable the world would be a better place. Fair impartial guarantors in the middle but no Brits and US coming anywhere near this region ever again maybe neutral countries to act as guarantors who have no conflict of interest for both sides.

MercanDede · 14/12/2023 23:41

Hamas wouldn’t let the people leave even if the international community was arranging boats and the check points were open.

Hamas has not blocked anyone from leaving that has left Gaza (other than the hostages). It has actually condemned Israel for not letting out more wounded for international medical care.

Is Hamas justified in plotting to attack Jewish people in Europe

If they did as it is currently alleged, then no it’s never justified. However, the suffering and deaths of Gazans is affecting people worldwide. Someone on the verge of hate and murderous intent can be swayed into terrorist action by the Gazan war. The three Palestinian students shot in the US by a domestic terrorist were victims of the hate caused by Hamas attacking Israeli civilians in a brutal and savage fashion. How much hate towards Jews is being created by the just as brutal and savage deaths of Palestinian civilians? It’s not justification to acknowledge that it is all linked in a domino effect.

And if Hamas achieved their goal of wiling out the state of Israel and all Jewish people

Hamas won’t achieve this goal. The issue is that the blood of tens of thousands of innocent civilians is not only not a necessary means to achieve the end of Hamas but is counter productive as for every civilian killed, ten terrorists are created. The US learned this in its War on Terror. It has tried to advise Israel to not repeat the same mistakes, but either the US isn’t trying hard enough with officials that know it or Israel isn’t listening or it’s a bit of both, a failure to communicate.

There are Israelis and non Israelis who want peace. Let’s be grateful we and our children can sleep peacefully tonight. Yes I completely agree, most people all around the world just want peace and security to raise their children, grand children and not be caught up in terrorism or wars. I feel like our political processes the world over for selecting/electing leaders is fundamentally flawed. We humans seem to continue to be ruled over by war mongering power corrupted dangerous people, that alot of the time we were fooled into voting for. Maybe one day we can find a way to have leaders that put peace and cooperation first.

MercanDede · 14/12/2023 23:47

webbydeb · 14/12/2023 23:03

@MercanDede Hamas are in tunnels and none of the illegal bombs launched would come close enough to penetrate the tunnels. These are targeted at civilians

Yes this is true, Hamas are in the tunnels. The tunnels are narrow and not very sturdy, no way to fit 100,000 in them much less 2 million plus. Hamas is also not just in tunnels as well, according to some of the former hostage comments reported. They are sheltering in abandoned buildings and constantly moving from place to place.

stomachameleon · 15/12/2023 00:20

@MercanDede

Hamas has not blocked anyone from leaving that has left Gaza (other than the hostages).

The tunnels are narrow and not very sturdy,

Do you know this for a fact?

MercanDede · 15/12/2023 00:22

stomachameleon · 15/12/2023 00:20

@MercanDede

Hamas has not blocked anyone from leaving that has left Gaza (other than the hostages).

The tunnels are narrow and not very sturdy,

Do you know this for a fact?

As much as one can know that a verified, reputable source is stating facts. I have done due diligence.

Nelsonmandelaforever · 15/12/2023 06:28

laughinglemons · 14/12/2023 22:02

Hamas are hiding behind women , children and innocent civilians. Hamas are cowards, but that doesn’t make the IDF incompetent, clever cowards because they have world wide support - a terror organisation that claims power without a vote for 20 years. If IDF wanted to bomb the whole of Gaza they could, but they don’t. Hamas WOULD blow up the whole of Israel if they could.

You been feeding too much on israeli propaganda. Please give a more balanced view.

Sussurations · 15/12/2023 08:43

Back to Hamas. I feel they work more for Israel than Palestine

@webbydeb can you explain what you mean by this, please.

sleeponthesofa · 15/12/2023 08:47

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/12/2023 12:12

I think they wanted to upset the status quo and provoke an attack from Israel that would garner international sympathy and support. They needed Palestinian children to die to achieve this, and they were fine with that...but I bet their own children were in a place of safety.

Wouldn't you want to upset the status quo too if you were being treated worse than animal for decades? If you were made stateless on your own land? If you were not allowed to move around freely within your own country? If your children were being detained and abused? If humiliation became a routine?

Israel want to "destroy hamas", they have in fact created a religion of hamas. All those children who have watched their parents die and have been left destitute will fall into the hands of hamas and they will be the next generation of Hamas fighters. Israel has put the entire world at risk. This is just the beginning of a new brand of Hamas because angry, hungry, grieving, unemployed, humiliated young men will want revenge and so the cycle will continue, keeping Palestine just where Isreal and the west need it to be.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 15/12/2023 09:02

sleeponthesofa · 15/12/2023 08:47

Wouldn't you want to upset the status quo too if you were being treated worse than animal for decades? If you were made stateless on your own land? If you were not allowed to move around freely within your own country? If your children were being detained and abused? If humiliation became a routine?

Israel want to "destroy hamas", they have in fact created a religion of hamas. All those children who have watched their parents die and have been left destitute will fall into the hands of hamas and they will be the next generation of Hamas fighters. Israel has put the entire world at risk. This is just the beginning of a new brand of Hamas because angry, hungry, grieving, unemployed, humiliated young men will want revenge and so the cycle will continue, keeping Palestine just where Isreal and the west need it to be.

Show quote history

Do you remember what the question was?

I answered the question.

Dulra · 15/12/2023 09:11

All those children who have watched their parents die and have been left destitute will fall into the hands of hamas and they will be the next generation of Hamas fighters.
100% this. Vulnerable children the world over are groomed by adults for different things such as terrorism, drug dealing, crime, abuse and so on. These children will be taken in, minded, fed and groomed for martyrdom

sleeponthesofa · 15/12/2023 09:22

@TheYearOfSmallThings yes I absolutely did read the question.
Re-read your answer to the question.

stomachameleon · 15/12/2023 11:54

I think your absolutely right @TheYearOfSmallThings

stomachameleon · 15/12/2023 18:58

@Thereissomelight I am confused by what you mean?

upinaballoon · 15/12/2023 20:03

MercanDede · 14/12/2023 22:40

Autocorrect.

Show quote history

Thanks. I don't use autocorrect at home, as far as I know, but at work there was a name I used to type and the machine was always thinking it knew better, so I can believe.

Wintersgirl · 16/12/2023 23:24

It’s not a conflict over land though is it, it’s a religious conflict.

Wrong, this is about Israel land grabbing....

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 18/12/2023 10:50

Fair impartial guarantors in the middle but no Brits and US coming anywhere near this region ever again maybe neutral countries to act as guarantors who have no conflict of interest for both sides.

Who do you suggest that would be accepted by Israeli's and Palastinians as a fair and neutral to solve the conflict?

NotTerfNorCis · 18/12/2023 23:47

Hamas are hiding behind women , children and innocent civilians. Hamas are cowards

First off, just to say that I don't support Hamas's targeting of civilians. That's deeply immoral.

However, this thing about hiding behind their own civilians.... bear in mind they are militarily much weaker than the IDF. Their motive is to defeat the IDF, but they couldn't do that in a straight fight. What they are doing is behaving like a typical small resistance movement. It's not cowardice, it's pragmatism.

Sussurations · 19/12/2023 07:45

However, this thing about hiding behind their own civilians.... bear in mind they are militarily much weaker than the IDF. Their motive is to defeat the IDF, but they couldn't do that in a straight fight. What they are doing is behaving like a typical small resistance movement. It's not cowardice, it's pragmatism.

Pragmatism is one word for it! It’s a deeply cynical, murderous strategy. They are happy for thousands of civilians to die. For years before Oct 7, they didn’t care when their rockets killed their own civilians. They don’t care that their population is suffering. It’s part of their strategy. Their motive is to destroy Israel and they would let the population of Gaza die a thousand times over to achieve that.

Thereissomelight · 19/12/2023 08:57

Sussurations · 19/12/2023 07:45

However, this thing about hiding behind their own civilians.... bear in mind they are militarily much weaker than the IDF. Their motive is to defeat the IDF, but they couldn't do that in a straight fight. What they are doing is behaving like a typical small resistance movement. It's not cowardice, it's pragmatism.

Pragmatism is one word for it! It’s a deeply cynical, murderous strategy. They are happy for thousands of civilians to die. For years before Oct 7, they didn’t care when their rockets killed their own civilians. They don’t care that their population is suffering. It’s part of their strategy. Their motive is to destroy Israel and they would let the population of Gaza die a thousand times over to achieve that.

Well let’s bear in mind that Hamas don’t actually killing Gazans. Israel is.

Thereissomelight · 19/12/2023 09:24

*Hamas aren’t

Sussurations · 19/12/2023 10:47

Hamas kill suspected ‘collaborators’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-sentences-7-gazans-to-death-by-hanging-for-collaboration-with-israel/amp/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-militants-west-bank-say-two-collaborators-executed-2023-11-25/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

they kill with misfired rockets

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/human-rights-watch-says-rocket-misfire-likely-cause-deadly-gaza-hospital-blast-2023-11-26/#:~:text=The%20explosion%20at%20the%20Al,said%20471%20people%20were%20killed.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/19/hamas-unwittingly-admits-gaza-rockets-are-prone-to-misfire/

they use human shields and work to maximise civilian casualties from Israeli attacks

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas

they use ambulances as vehicles for terror operations

https://nbcmontana.com/amp/news/nation-world/hamas-admits-using-ambulances-to-transport-weapons-terrorist-in-leaked-phone-call-palestine-israel-war-strike-fighting-gaza-strip-middle-east-humanitarian-crisis-israel-defense-forces

they use resources such as water pipes to make
weapons, depriving civilians of these resources

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-gaza-challenge-stopping-metal-tubes-turning-into-rockets-2021-05-23/

and of course they use aid money for weapons and to enrich themselves while civilians go without

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna121099

Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict

Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new r...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

Swipe left for the next trending thread