What did Hamas think they would achieve through October 7?

[CroccyWoccy]

I don’t normally post in this section so please forgive the potentially naive or badly phrased question (I don’t like the word ‘achieve’ but struggling to think of a better one.

Without wanting to get into whether any particular actions are justified or proportionate, it seems that it was entirely foreseeable that an attack such as the one that took place on Oct 7 would trigger an Israeli response on the scale we have seen.

With that in mind, I cannot understand Hamas’s motivation for planning such an attack, given the outcome of death and destruction with Gaza was inevitable? Or by trying to attribute some kind of rational strategy of cause and effect to Hamas, am I completely misunderstanding how they operate?

I’ll respond to your pointless and inaccurate comment with an equally pointless one.

They wanted to terrorise Israelis. They did. Target achieved.

They are happy to die for this cause. They are delighted Israel is killing Palestinians in response.

What you see is what they wanted.

@notimagain thanks. I was interested to read that neither Israel nor the US has found evidence that Iran was behind Oct 7, because that seemed a strong possibility at first.

Yes, I think the atrocity on the 7th October was done very deliberately to provoke a world wide reaction. But I am not so sure about it having the result they intended as the US, as the biggest power and donater to Isreal in terms of actual weapons and also support has not really fundamenatlly wavered in their support of Isreal despite murmurings and I really don't think they will.

So much evidence to suggest they are targeting children. Sniper bullets, newborns and whole families sheltering in a school killed.

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_shoot_kill_14_year_old_palestinian_boy_in_al_far_a_refugee_camp

There were negotiations happening with Saudi Arabia that were reported to bring economic benefits to Gaza. Hamas was at risk of losing their stranglehold on the people.

Hamas got exactly what it wanted from the oct 7 attacks, the people of Gaza devastated.

generally don't consider anything provided by al-Jazeera as "evidence". evidence should be corroborated by an unbiased source

Sigh

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Hamas use schools and hospitals as shields.

But to turn this around you could also say that the 7 October attacks proved exactly why Israel needs such an aggressive military.

The country is literally next door to a significant number of men who are willing and able to rape, torture and massacre as many Israelis as they can.

So yes, feel free to call the IDF ‘monstrous’. But the IDF looks and acts like it does because of the tangible and credible threats facing Israel. It’s very easy to sit in a country that doesn’t need an IDF-like army and criticise from a distance.

Gosh. Sigh.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Israel are using Hamas as an excuse to obliterate ALL Palestinians so they can steal their land and and settle their people in it.

But guess it's okay to murder an entire neighbourhood full of innocent children, women and men if there's a potential of 'maybe' some Hamas members being amongst them. Hiding behind their kids of course.

Was it ok for Hamas to murder a load of innocent thai nationals then - just because they happened to live and work in Israel?

This is interesting. Perhaps there's a distinction to be drawn between the Hamas leadership and Hamas fighters who were directly involved in the attacks - there's a difference between being in a mansion in Qatar and physically carrying out murder and rape. I guess the latter can only be understood in terms of ideology and nihilism which has commonality with jihadis - they had to be motivated to carry out unspeakable acts, but also do so knowing the reprecussions for their families and friends in Gaza.

Who else was sheltering in that school?

@Humdingerydoo You are justifying and excusing shooting a newborn baby and its mother and siblings at point blank range? Disgusting.

I really don't remember saying any of that. I only remember asking who else was sheltering there. You seem to be pretty keen on only telling a fraction of a story.

@Humdingerydoo watch the video. It might give you a little insight and maybe you will find an ounce of compassion in your heart to condemn it rather than immediately jumping on to the "but Hamas" bandwagon.

They shot many children at point blank range and their mothers execution style. There was no mention of Hamas there. Shooting and killing innocent children and their mothers execution style is unforgivable. Cruel.

I agree generally but with this in particular

They wanted to terrorise Israelis. They did. Target achieved.

They are happy to die for this cause.

And for others to die

There has definitely been mention of Hamas being there. I thought it was important since 7th October to always understood the context and that things don't happen in a vacuum?

I am happy to condemn any killing of innocent people, children in particular. I'm not happy to condemn how you have chosen to frame things, the language you have chosen to use.

@Humdingerydoo please point me to "mention" of Hamas being their with your reputable links? Please provide your evidence?

Nevertheless, even if Hamas were there it is never acceptable to execute women and children and newborns at point blank range. Are you saying it is?

All the reports I can find point to these being displaced civilian families sheltering.

On Wednesday, Al Jazeera said in a video report that Palestinian civilians sheltering inside a Gaza school were killed “execution” style by Israeli occupation forces inside the Shadia Abu Ghazala School in the Al Falujja area, west of Jabalia refugee camp.The news outlet aired footage that showed bodies piled up inside the school, including newborn babies.“They were all killed, executed at gunpoint,” a witness told Al Jazeera, which said it has exclusive testimonies of the massacre.“In exclusive testimonies obtained by Al Jazeera, witnesses describe the horrific sights they encountered inside a school in northern Gaza following an Israeli attack,” the news outlet said.The American-Muslim council expressed its deep concern about the situation, stressing that the “apparent Israeli execution of civilians is similar to the reported execution of wounded, unarmed Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.”

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2023/12/359535/muslim-council-urges-biden-to-respond-to-execution-style-massacre-in-gaza-school

Of course it wasn’t. Who ever said it was? Murdering innocent people is vile and whoever does it is vile and needs to be prosecuted and punished.

Is it ok for Israelis to murder thousands of innocent children just because they happen to live in Gaza?

Yep! It would be impossible to kill as many as they have unintentionally.

This. It seems to have been forgotten that they deliberately targetted kibbutzim & peace campaigners. Clearly their intention was to elevate the most hardline elements in Israel and neutralise the peace movement as well as derail normalisation. They want to destroy Israel and create a caliphate & dont vare how many of their own people die in the process.