Page 2 | To ask why the only countries that didn't vote for a ceasefire were USA and UK?

Kaffeebitte · 10/12/2023 07:54

Mumof2teens79 · 10/12/2023 07:29

And here in lies the issue
Unfortunately you can't express any sympathy for Palestinians without someone claiming anti-semitism.

It is possible to be critical of Israel...and not be anti-semitic.
It's also possible to be a full supporter of Israel, anti-hamas, and still want a ceasefire.

Absolutely this

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 07:54

It’s such a privileged kind of snark.

this is true

FrancescaContini · 10/12/2023 07:55

The US sells arms to Israel. Nuff said.

Both the US and our government disgust me at condoning the ongoing killing of Palestinians. And no, this is not an anti-Semitic comment. We see you, with your knee-jerk “that’s anti-Semitic” response.

Original poster

stillholly · 10/12/2023 07:55

HowVeryBizarre · 10/12/2023 07:19

I am absolutely horrified and disgusted at the anti semitism that has reared its ugly head again. Hamas knew what they were starting and cheerfully went ahead knowingly sacrificing their people. Now Israel are the bad guys! It is such a shame that so many people are so ignorant of history. Nobody wants any civilian population to suffer but ignoring the Hamas atrocities to jump on the “Palestinians are the victims” bandwagon is shameful. Having heard a livestream of an Israeli family before Hamas broke into their safe room and massacred their family I will never ever be anything other than pro Israeli.

I completely agree that Hamas are inhumane, awful and should be wiped out. However - not totally to the demise of so many civilians. I saw an article that said how many civilians have been killed by Isreal compared to many other conflicts and the proportion was astounding.

OP posts:

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 07:56

The US sells arms to Israel. Nuff said

Who sells arms to Palestine?

Soontobe60 · 10/12/2023 07:57

HowVeryBizarre · 10/12/2023 07:19

I am absolutely horrified and disgusted at the anti semitism that has reared its ugly head again. Hamas knew what they were starting and cheerfully went ahead knowingly sacrificing their people. Now Israel are the bad guys! It is such a shame that so many people are so ignorant of history. Nobody wants any civilian population to suffer but ignoring the Hamas atrocities to jump on the “Palestinians are the victims” bandwagon is shameful. Having heard a livestream of an Israeli family before Hamas broke into their safe room and massacred their family I will never ever be anything other than pro Israeli.

A ceasefire isn’t about taking sides, it’s about saving lives. Anyone who’s against a ceasefire is saying they just want revenge. How do you think this will end?

RealBigBarbie · 10/12/2023 07:57

HowVeryBizarre · 10/12/2023 07:19

I am absolutely horrified and disgusted at the anti semitism that has reared its ugly head again. Hamas knew what they were starting and cheerfully went ahead knowingly sacrificing their people. Now Israel are the bad guys! It is such a shame that so many people are so ignorant of history. Nobody wants any civilian population to suffer but ignoring the Hamas atrocities to jump on the “Palestinians are the victims” bandwagon is shameful. Having heard a livestream of an Israeli family before Hamas broke into their safe room and massacred their family I will never ever be anything other than pro Israeli.

You were the 6th person to comment on this thread. Pls show me where the anti semitism was in the first 5 comments? Because I can’t see any at all….

RealBigBarbie · 10/12/2023 07:58

Mumof2teens79 · 10/12/2023 07:29

And here in lies the issue
Unfortunately you can't express any sympathy for Palestinians without someone claiming anti-semitism.

It is possible to be critical of Israel...and not be anti-semitic.
It's also possible to be a full supporter of Israel, anti-hamas, and still want a ceasefire.

!!!

Missingmyusername · 10/12/2023 07:58

VeniVidiWeeWee · 09/12/2023 23:33

Really? You don't follow the news then?

Well clearly not, so answer the question lol

FrancescaContini · 10/12/2023 07:59

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 07:56

The US sells arms to Israel. Nuff said

Who sells arms to Palestine?

I’m answering the question in the OP.

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 08:00

The UK sells a lot of arms too, to countries like Saudi Arabia, Kenya etc

Original poster

stillholly · 10/12/2023 08:01

FrancescaContini · 10/12/2023 07:55

The US sells arms to Israel. Nuff said.

Both the US and our government disgust me at condoning the ongoing killing of Palestinians. And no, this is not an anti-Semitic comment. We see you, with your knee-jerk “that’s anti-Semitic” response.

So at a very simple level and I realise all of this is the complete opposite of simple. USA are thinking that if they agree to a ceasefire they will not be able to sell as much arms and not make as much money. So they would prefer innocent civilians to die in order to make a quick buck.

OP posts:

FrancescaContini · 10/12/2023 08:01

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 08:00

The UK sells a lot of arms too, to countries like Saudi Arabia, Kenya etc

Yeah I know but as I said - I was answering the OP.

mindthespace · 10/12/2023 08:02

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 07:40

None of this is surprising after the war on Iraq.

This is what surprises me, have people forgotten about the War on Terror. The US would be hypocritical to vote for a ceasefire.

The US went to war with Iraq for breaking 2 international laws for 8 years. Israel has broken 62 to date.

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 08:02

I’m answering the question in the OP.

and you think where Hamas gets funding from is irrelevant to the US & has no impact on the question the OP asked? lol.

EarringsandLipstick · 10/12/2023 08:03

So at a very simple level and I realise all of this is the complete opposite of simple. USA are thinking that if they agree to a ceasefire they will not be able to sell as much arms and not make as much money. So they would prefer innocent civilians to die in order to make a quick buck

Oh come on OP - that's what you've taken from the thread so far? 🤦🏻‍♀️

Sususudio · 10/12/2023 08:03

I think international law is dead, tbh. I also think all room for moderation has now flown out of the window. There will only be extremists on both sides from now on. And as always, it will be women and children who suffer most.

MindHowYouGoes · 10/12/2023 08:03

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 07:56

The US sells arms to Israel. Nuff said

Who sells arms to Palestine?

Come on now we don’t ask those kind of questions here. Israel very bad - Palestine very good according to lots of MN posters

Simonjt · 10/12/2023 08:04

With the US if you think about their history, particularly Iraq, it was always quite clear that they wouldn’t support a ceasefire, they essentially can’t show support for a ceasefire as doing so would be condeming their own actions.

The UK has been very spinless of late, plus we have to consider that any vote either way could have an impact on money made selling arms to the middle east and africa.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 10/12/2023 08:07

Sides:

No child should die,
because of a side,
No child should suffer,
because of a side,
No child should be raped,
because of a side,
No child should starve,
because of a side,
No child should be homeless,
because of a side,
No sides,
they need solutions.

thatone · 10/12/2023 08:07

The US has always and unequivocally supported Israeli actions. And they give a lot of aid to Israel, as well as weapons.

My understanding is that this is party due to historical support from when Israel was created, partly in order to have an ally/foothold in the Middle East, and partly due to lobbyists and other pro-Israel groups who make donations to the political parties.

There is also racism.

The UK can't not follow the US.

Random30 · 10/12/2023 08:08

stillholly · 09/12/2023 23:12

All other countries in the UN voted for a ceasefire.

USA put their hand up and voted against a ceasefire.

UK abstained from voting.

Can anyone explain to me their reasoning for not voting for a ceasefire?

Because they have arms to sell.

jesterdourt · 10/12/2023 08:08

USA are thinking that if they agree to a ceasefire they will not be able to sell as much arms and not make as much money. So they would prefer innocent civilians to die in order to make a quick buck.

a little simplistic

Simonjt · 10/12/2023 08:08

Mumof2teens79 · 10/12/2023 07:29

And here in lies the issue
Unfortunately you can't express any sympathy for Palestinians without someone claiming anti-semitism.

It is possible to be critical of Israel...and not be anti-semitic.
It's also possible to be a full supporter of Israel, anti-hamas, and still want a ceasefire.

Yep, my husband was recently accused of anti-semitism because he supports a ceasefire, and doesn’t support the actions of hamas or the isreali government. He had to point out to a so called friend calling him anti-semitic that before he married his surname was Aaronson.

rileynexttime · 10/12/2023 08:09

@stillholly another person here that's glad you asked this question .
I read this (from the Guardian/Observer which seems to becoming a MN equivalent of the DM ) and was horrified. But not surprised
"The Biden administration has used an emergency authority to allow the sale of about 14,000 tank shells to Israel without congressional review, the Pentagon said on Saturday.
The state department on Friday used an Arms Export Control Act emergency declaration for the tank rounds worth $106.5m for immediate delivery to Israel, the Pentagon said in a statement.
The shells are part of a bigger sale that was first reported by Reuters on Friday that the Biden administration is asking the US Congress to approve. The larger package is worth more than $500m and includes 45,000 shells for Israel’s Merkava tanks, regularly deployed in its offensive in Gaza, which has killed thousands of civilians. ."