To ask why the only countries that didn't vote for a ceasefire were USA and UK?

[stillholly]

All other countries in the UN voted for a ceasefire.

USA put their hand up and voted against a ceasefire.

UK abstained from voting.

Can anyone explain to me their reasoning for not voting for a ceasefire?

Avery large portion of U.K. gdp is the arms trade.

“Man’s inhumanity to man is playing out ‘live’ on our social media channels every day and there are still those who will justify it. Utterly sickening.”

Kind of like the pro-Palestine mob who immediately came out in full support for Hamas while they butchered Israelis in real time on livestream 🫢

finally an intelligent take! Thank you coven.

destabilisation of the current status quo is in full swing. Don’t ignore China, purveyors of TikTok that allows all this anti west mobilisation from within.

Hamas have a plan, and they are happy to let 2 million Palestinian pawns die on the board if it breaks Israels castle. (To use a very clunky metaphor) because they can blame Israel and the west the whole while and still look shiny and righteous while raping and murdering to their tiktok supporters.

I don’t want to see the US and Europe decline. I’m happy benefiting from the status quo and I think most of us are decent people who want to see conditions improve worldwide. We have set up the UN and ICC and the WHO and countless charities and humanitarian organisations. Our DC schools are partnered with schools in poverty stricken areas, our doctors teach and volunteer with doctors from all over the world.

But we also have our warmongers who stir hatred. I think some of them are psychopaths and narcissists who do it literally for their own benefit. I think others mean better and do it out of fear - climate change and overpopulation will mean fighting over land and resources so they feel they have to get in first and show their hand. They think they are benefiting all of us by doing this. Maybe in the short to medium term they are. But in the long term a world where everyone carries weapons and hates each other and kills each other’s children isn’t a good world. This dismantling of the UN and ICC really worries me.

Imvho, Netenyahu was fully aware a brutal Hamas attack was coming and he chose to sacrifice the lives of Israeli citizens to give him the excuse he wanted to flatten Gaza. He has made it patently clear with his encouragement of illegal settlement in the West Bank and his rhetoric that he would never support a two state solution and he cannot deny that many warnings were received. His every action is clear evidence that he believes in and supports a solution involving the genocide of Palestinians, as in his mind it’s “us or them,” and he is intent on it being the Palestinians who are wiped off the face of the earth.

What Israel is doing in Gaza is genocide and the USA in supporting it is supporting genocide, whether it wants to or not. Fwiw, I don’t think it actually wants Israel to commit genocide, but politically it would rather Israel continued to exist, even if a genocidal Israel, than that it should lose its foothold in the Middle East. And I think the willingness of our leaders to turn a blind eye to war crimes when it is politically expedient is bad news for all of us. Hospitals and schools are fair game in any war from now on - all you need to say is that the enemy are using them as bases. And mass starvation and disease is just an unfortunate consequence of war. 🤮

"I wonder whether Gazans would have responded differently if they weren't confined to stay within a border their whole lives, attacked with violence by an advanced military to stay in line and if they didn't have their children locked up for 20 years at 12 years old for throwing stones."

Restrictions intensified in response to their violence. Walls were built and restrictions were imposed because they just wouldn't stop walking into shopping centres and blowing people to bits.

But that's all history now. Nobody is going to have their minds changed and will believe or disbelieve any narrative that doesn't fit their world view.

What people could do now is call for the release of the hostages, and for Hamas to give themselves up. I'm sure we can all agree that the hostages are innocent and that Hamas are monsters.

Hamas have a plan and they are happy to let 2 million Palestinians die

Ffs you make it sound as if the Palestinians are dying of an illness of some kind and Hamas is refusing to nurse them.

The Palestinians are dying because ISRAEL is bombing and killing them.

Yesterday, I met Israeli survivors, Israeli family members that have endured so much loss, the horrors of hostage taking and the insecurity of the unknown about where they are and what has happened.

No mention of the rape and torture of women then. Rape is a war crime. Will the rape, torture, mutilation and murder of Israeli women be investigated - as well as the crimes against other Israelis, including Children? Will a return of the hostages be demanded? Will the use of schools, hospitals and mosques as bases for terrorist activity be considered, as well as the use of innocent civilians by the Iranian-funded Hamas?

I doubt it.

I could have written this.

I think the 'win' will be the flattening of Palestine.

But to be honest the total disregard Hamas have shown its people - the Palestinians makes me think there is way more to this than we know. How can you have a 'people ' if you set them up to be wiped out - which is happening. I know the Palestinians are considered on the last rung of the ladder in the Arab world - to me- it seems as they are being used as sacrifices for something else

So because Hamas it’s ok to massacre, maim and orphan thousands of innocent children?

The son of a Hamas general has spoken out publicly several times on this. Hamas knew what the response would be, this is what they wanted. Israel's revenge has played into their hands. I think they must be disappointed that they have not received support from any other government though.

@electriclight
So “because Hamas” it’s ok to massacre, maim and orphan thousands of innocent children?

Again with the nuance. If you aren’t firmly on the side of Hamas you must support baby killing right?

I’m not on the side of Hamas.
I don’t support baby killing.

Social media disinformation campaigns make no difference to international law.
Mothers from Israel and Palestine marched together for peace and have been calling for a ceasefire.
The war mongers being promoted by the media aren't representative of the general populations.
It's easy for people who have never experienced war, refugee camps, or genocide to waste their time spreading war hungry disinformation but their voices are irrelevant and insincere. Look at the posters on here who are so frightened of a discussion about a vote for a ceasefire that they are posting disinformation and spamming the thread.

I agree with this and why a ceasefire would risk another Hamas attack which is possibly even as horrific as the one of 7th October.

What I can’t understand is why it doesn’t seem possible to target and kill Hamas and only Hamas rather than wider air strikes which are killing civilians (if, for example, there were terrorist cells in NYC or London, the governments would easily root them out without bombing the areas).

Maybe I’m too idealistic but I would love to see Israel and Gaza unsegregated and everyone living happily side by side regardless of nationality/religion.

Congrats on showing your ignorance of Middle Eastern and even global political history.

Hamas broke a ceasefire knowing what the consequences would be and exactly how to spin it. Don’t be naive. Nobody want children dying like this. But Hamas are letting it happen because it suits their long term goals and gets people like us crying over the social media content and wringing our hands against Israel. What an oversimplification and misdirection. They get billions every year they could spend in infrastructure to improve the lives of those children, but instead they buy weapons, train soldiers and make sure people are having as many children as possible. And it’s been that way for years.

Hamas committed the most evil hideous atrocity on October 7th. Their punishment is now essentially the anbsolute end of Hamas. Israel will sever the hold they have over the Palestinians and then will look to broker peace deals. I think Israel will not allow that kind of terrorist organisation to seed itself next door ever again.

Hamas are repellent. Netenyahu and his coalition government are repellent. Extremists are pulling the strings of moderate countries and dragging the entire world down with them.

"Imvho, Netenyahu was fully aware a brutal Hamas attack was coming and he chose to sacrifice the lives of Israeli citizens to give him the excuse he wanted to flatten Gaza."

Too much time watching TikTok.

Why would Israel want to flatten Gaza, before all of this of course?

Why would they want to inflame tensions in the region and face international condemnation?

What Israel is doing is seeding terrorist organisations around the world in a lot of countries. You can’t murder, mutilate and starve people out of terrorism.

Antisemitism seems to have become a get out of jail free card. It shuts down debate and implies a moral superiority in the person saying it. And the person hearing it feels unable to explain anything as Antisemitism is such a huge word with awful connotations.

And there you have illustrated the disparity
Israel does not equal Israelis or Jewish people.
The state of Israel have not been fair or treated ordinary Palestinians well for decades so sympathy for Israel is open to criticism...what is happening now could easily be considered genocide. That's not anti-semitic.
You need to separate individuals from state and both from religion and race.

A ceasefire now would mean that Israel won't have achieved their objectives, that's why the USA and UK didn't vote for it. What would be the point?