What should Israel have done?

[WibbleWobbleFlop]

The entire situation between Israel and Palestine is horrendous. Hamas and the IDF are both terrorists organisations, there is no disputing that. Palestine is experiencing a genocide, there is no disputing that. Hamas wants Israel and all Jews worldwide to experience a genocide, there is no disputing that.

From a non-Zionist Jewish person with no ties to Israel, I am struggling to see how Israel should have responded to the October 7 massacre. I don't see how this war could have been avoided. In order to defend Israel and all Jewish people against genocide, Hamas needed to be taken down. But with Hamas hiding amongst civilians, Israel could not take down Hamas without civilian casualties. Hamas will not stop using human shields and continues to attack Israel with the promise of further massacres like that of October 7.

I see constant calls for ceasefire and calling on Israel specifically to stop. For the sake of innocent Palestinians, I want this. But how can Israel do this without endangering their own innocent population?

I would like to hear what posters believe should have been done, and what could be done now to end the war and have peace.

Trust you say? What happened in 2005 after Israel disengaged from Gaza? A terrorist group, with a mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews, was elected as government a few months later! There was no blockade before that I believe. The blockade was put in place BECAUSE of that.

Correct me if I’m wrong @OuiOuiKitty?

I don’t think Israel has much confidence an international peacekeeping force will protect it’s security. This is interesting. It mentions Gaza as well as the West Bank.

https://jcpa.org/requirements-for-defensible-borders/foreign_peacekeeping_forces/

@Thereissomelight it wasn't blunt at all. You were right, it does read as though I am saying Israel should have done that so they make themselves look better. They should want to both look and actually be better than a bunch of terrorists. Hamas are 30,000 (at best) religious extremists. Why would you not collaborate internationally? If you are funded by huge democracies, who state they are your friends, and have given you a lot of money, why wouldn't you involve them in the solution? Instead Blinken was running round like a headless chicken failing to keep a lid on crazy rhetoric and lies in the early days.

You are right. I didn't ram home enough that they should have wanted to have come to a less lethal option and engaged with the international community. If, as Israel and pro-Israeli's keep saying, they are the only bastions of democracy in the area...why are they engaging in a war that seems to be using a military tactic of using a sledgehammer to kill a fly?

They can't keep on with the 'Do as I say, not as I do' because the world is now saying 'Hang on a minute, you rightly want us to call out the abhorrent acts of Hamas but also forget what went on before October 7th and also you must look away when you engage in equally abhorrent acts yourselves. Killing 6,000 children? And if we don't you call us antisemitic? And you lie about strategy and events that affect your decision making on top of that? Nah.'

Hamas don't give a shit (if it's not about religion), they are not interested in democracy and progressiveness and humanity, that is clear. Israel can't expect people to think they are when they are behaving as they currently are.

You are more than welcome to disagree. I would love to hear your opinions and what Israel should have done and should do moving forward to ensure peace and prosperity for all in the region?

The IDF are not terrorists. However, they are committing and have committed war crimes.

So far the best option I've heard is asking for the support of other nations to create a solution. Obviously it's too late for that. Moving forward, I don't see what Israel and Palestine can do bar blind trust, as @OuiOuiKitty suggests. It's a risky option with a huge likelihood of failure, but I haven't seen anything else that could be done.

UNIFIL has been a constant reminder to the Israeli public of the fecklessness of international forces in preventing an Islamist insurgent force like Hizbullah from carrying out terrorist warfare against Israel.

Interesting part of that article.....

The way I see it, Israel’s long term strategy can depend upon how it sees itself going forward.

eg
Option A:
Israel is a civilised ME democracy with good relations internationally and with its neighbours. This will be very very difficult in the short and medium term. They will have to give back all the occupied and settled territories and agree to no more expansion. They will have to allow the international community to rebuild Gaza and cooperate with whatever government can be set up there with international agreement. There will admittedly be a very rough road ahead when Gaza’s current bereaved and severely traumatised children come of age, form Hamas 2 and seek revenge. Hopefully the US and the EU - but crucially also the Arab and other ME countries - will by then be willing to support Israel in weathering this. Long term, trust and good will and stability on all sides MAY eventually prevail.

Option B:
Israel will carry on pummelling Gaza until it effectively runs the place with an iron fist. It will need to continue to receive billions in defence funding from the US to ward off Hamas 2, 3, 4 and onward. In return for the cash it will function as America’s aircraft carrier in the Middle East. Everyone will go around armed and no Jewish families who have options elsewhere will want to live there long term.

Option C:
Israel goes its own way and doesn’t listen to anyone else, including the US. It takes over Gaza, becomes ever more extremist and begins to seek the territory “from the Euphrates to the Nile” that apparently a man 3000 years ago said belonged to them. Thus leading to God knows what amount of suffering and wider conflict which Israel will blame everyone else for.

And yes, before anyone jumps on me, in Option A, any terrorist attacks on innocent Israeli citizens would be internationally condemned and the perpetrators sought out and punished. That should hardly need saying. But the accompanying long term strategy of winning hearts and minds would be what would achieve a more lasting stability. Children on all sides would no longer be taught to sing songs about killing their neighbours (have seen the videos, from both Gaza and Israel).

@FreedomOfSpeechBelongToEveryone yes that's really ' hobest' and unbiased.

I'm going to come back to this and write out properly my thoughts but I think think the first thing that should have been done is Netanyahu should have been removed.
He played a part in this mess. He is corrupt, he cannot be trusted .
If he cannot be trusted with the affairs of Israel and to act in the best interest of Israeli civlians, then how does Israel expect the rest of the world to trust him to make decisions in the interest of palestinian civilians
He has shown through his actions the lengths he will go to, to preserve his own selfish interests and to hold onto his power

If many Israelis don't like and trust him, then it is more the reason for the other countries to also mistrust him.

I think Israel should have done exactly what it did do and to achieve peace now Hamas need to surrender .

If they don't, Israel will continue until they eliminate Hamas and the best outcome is that it's done sooner rather than later. Hopefully all be over by spring.

Netanyahu knows his career is over, and it seems that because of that he doesn't care of any future consequences
That's a bad combination to have in the head of a state who is currently in charge of a war that is facing intense global scrutiny

But it is true though.

@FreedomOfSpeechBelongToEveryone what is?

The IDF is not a terrorist organisation @WibbleWobbleFlop I think it’s important not to draw false equivalences. Israel is a legal nation - the only democracy in the Middle East and also the only country in the ME where Jews and Christians can celebrate their religious beliefs.

BUT I’m similarly non plussed - I wish Israel hadn’t responded as it did but on the other hand, Hamas are racist anti-Semitic terrorists who want to wipe all Jews from the face of the earth. Not just Israeli Jews.

im not Jewish but I have Jewish family and friends. I fear for their safety even here in Britain. I’ve seen them be racially harasssed in other countries and I find it sad that it’s now happening here.

the IDF is not a terrorist organisation

A rose by any other name…

Since Oct 7 they have ramped up illegally and violently clearing homes in the West Bank, up to and including killing residents who fight back or refuse to leave. They are destroying Gaza, actions which more and more commentators see as deliberate, done to render Gaza uninhabitable.

And of course they have killed thousands of children in the past few weeks and maimed and orphaned thousands more.

how can Israel be a democracy when half the population are treated as second class citizens and denied their human rights?

If you think they can finish Hamas by spring through indiscriminant bombing and slaughter and look forward to long term piece you are deluded.

twitter.com/JCCAssociation/status/1732819317777907970

*peace, obviously

That cartoon was taken down by the Washington Post where it was first published for being racist and dehumanising Palestinians.