Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

Israel needs to defeat Hamas and ensure the Hamas slaughter does not happen again. That might require a complete closure of a very large border area used as a big gap between Israel and Gaza perhaps with no crossings of any kind and certainly no tunnels going under.

In my view the destruction of Hamas is above the lives of the hostages although the more who can be released the better. Giving in to terrorists who kidnap people for hoped reward has never been a strategy the UK, USA or Israel supports. If you give in you just show you are weak and many more kidnappings happen.

Pakistan is sending 1.7m Afghans back to Afghanistan - 400k have already gone back - in part because of Taliban support amongst some of them and increase Islamic terrorist attacks in Pakistan by Afghans who have a Pakistan Taliban. It is not just the West which faces intense threats from Islamic terrorists - it is also places like Pakistan. Iran is also currently expelling Afghans. There is a common them with the Taliban, ISIS and Hamas - they have similar appalling practices and views.

@Xenia - if the border is closed completely - how will aid get in? Why should the Palestinians be kept in an open air prison without the basic right to move freely?
Some in the US and UK may support the actions of the Israeli government but the numbers are dropping as a reflection of the inhumane acts of the IDF. Netanyahu is holding onto power with his finger tips as the Israeli population want him out of office as do the US government.

@Xenia so you’re another person who thinks terrorists can be bombed out of existence? Seriously? Spoiler alert - it doesn’t work!

@MissyB1 exactly this. I've even seen suggestions that Gaza should be nuked on here. Madness.

As terrible as it is I wasn't shocked when I read this.
This probably deserves a thread of its own for those who keep saying it's not as bad as posters on here are making out and there's been worse that we are not paying attention to right now

According to experts war in Gaza is one of the most destructive in history
"Gaza is now a different colour from space. It's a different texture," Mr Scher said, who has worked to map destruction across several warzones.
The offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine's Mariupol last year at the hands of Russia or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in the Second World War.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-latest-hamas-war-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800?postid=6959887#liveblog-body

https://news.sky.com/story/un-security-council-vote-on-gaza-aid-delayed-again-over-talks-with-us-on-ceasefire-13034723

Israel's military campaign is viewed as one of the most destructive in the history of warfare, according to experts.
Israel's offensive has destroyed over two-thirds of all structures in northern Gaza and a quarter of buildings in the southern area of Khan

Yet when we share videos to show the damage and destruction we are apparently doing Hamas PR and why don't we show all the 'good bits' in Gaza right now

@Parkingt111 yes I definitely think that deserves a thread of its own. Don't be put off posting it, as I think it is important. You will always get pushback, every thread supporting Palestine has pushback on it, but it's important. :)

@paladium i think the majority are sympathetic and have empathy.
But some who do minimise sadly

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/23/israel-flooding-hamas-tunnels-seawater-risks-ruining-basic-life-gaza-expert

if Israel do flood the tunnels and ruin basic life, this could be deemed to be genocide

@Parker231 did Egypt commit genocide then? As haven't they already done it?

Yes I believe the Egyptians flooded the tunnels under Rafah with seawater back in 2015.

@Parker231 good article thank you - very worrying, just another way to destroy Gaza and make it uninhabitable

Egyptians doing so in Egypt would surely have taken more care than IDF in Gaza - or maybe that's how the environmental hazards came to be known?

I'm not sure what you mean by more care - they have been very ruthless by all accounts and there have been more attempts to close the tunnels in later years too:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/world/middleeast/as-egypt-floods-gaza-tunnels-smugglers-fear-an-end-to-their-trade.html

@Efacsen why would they? Flooding is flooding surely? They did it repeatedly.

@Efacsen I mean this kindly it is not a personal attack...

You are clearly an intelligent person so think about your bias when you write things like 'they did it more carefully than the IDF' there is no difference and it's concerning you think there this.

Some of the tunnels on the Egyptian side were also flooded with sewage, potentially environmentally catastrophic.

The Egyptian authorities also forcibly evicted thousands of people and demolished thousands of homes and other buildings to create an enlarged buffer zone along their border with Gaza. I don’t think displaced Gazans is a primary concern for them.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2015/09/22/look-another-homeland/forced-evictions-egypts-rafah

What can I say. Sisi is as corrupt as they come. Not suprised he has US backing either. And that the US far from condemning the forced evacuations and demolitions, actually praised it.

A visual representation of how Israel dropped 2000 pound bombs in the safe zones that it asked civilians to move to
It is absolutely horrific and the betrayal of the worst kind to to do to trapped and scared civilians.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/100000009208814/israel-gaza-bomb-civilians.html

@Parkingt111 absolutely bloody awful. The poor civilians.

@Parkingt111 remember as well over 2000 rockets have misfired and landed in the Gaza Strip that were fired by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. I wonder what the casualty figures are like for them. Aid agencies conspicuously quiet about those rockets?

@stomachameleon have you seen the video I posted
Of the 2000 pound bomb that Israel is using in safe zones and civilian areas?

Whilst Hamas rockets are also dreadful they are nowhere near comparable to some of the most deadliest bombs that have been inflicted on civilians

@Parkingt111 article wouldn't download for me [slow internet] but presumably these are the sort of bunker-busting bombs used by the US in the empty Tora Bora mountains and here being used for tunnels underlying an urban area?

Totally gives a lie to the precision/targeted bombing nonsense

It's a 8 minute clip
Il see if I can find another link
It compares the different bombs
The MK-84 can impact up to 3000 feet of where it has dropped in all directions aswell as metal shrapnel that comes out on impact up to hundreds of feet away

I saw a video of a journalist who recorded the bombing that happened in the vicinity of the Kuwaiti hospital and was shocked to see him getting injured from shrapnel even though he was a considerable distance away from it but it makes sense now