Do lots of people support Hamas?

[elprup]

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

Wouldn’t of thought so. Why would you support terrorists?

I know how you feel OP.
I would love to wear a Palestine flag but don't want to to be mis-read as support for Hamas.
Likewise, I would love to wear an Israeli flag, but don't want it to be mis-read as support for IDF.

You took it to mean that… but that’s idealistic. And naive. And the thinking of a decent liberal (like me!)

I am no supporter of Israeli’s longstanding behaviour, or of Hamas, or of the current plight of Palestinian citizens. But really, no, ‘Freedom Fighters’ means terrorists acting for Hamas.

I would love this^ too.

@elprup when asking yourself how anyone can justify the crimes by Hamas, you must also ask yourself how anyone can justify how the Palestinians are treated by Israel, with their children killed, their children imprisoned and tortured even when innocent, landmarks and homes bulldozed, no human rights, living in fear their entire lives, millions unable to leave Gaza, subjugated, hungry and subject to racist attacks by settlers on a daily basis for decades.

I do not justify Hamas crimes, but I cannot justify the way Palestinians are treated either, for many decades, by Israeli govt.

So do you want them to kill all the babies and children in Gaza then, is that what you are saying. What a disgustingly vile comment.

I think the majority of people at the pro-Palestine believe that Hamas and the-like (ie the many other Islamic militant groups in Gaza) are a natural consequence of an oppressive neighbour - Israel. They condemn Hamas but by their logic it was brought upon them by themselves.

So you want hamas to rebuild and kill children and babies in Israel again? What a disgustingly vile comment.

Do you want to point me to where I said I "want them to kill all the babies and children in gaza"?
Get off your bloody high horse 😆

I honestly don’t think a lot of people are thinking that far into it. I overheard colleagues discussing it, one of whom had been to a march, the one who hadn’t asked if Israeli gov and Hamas are both right wing? And their answer was “well Israel definitely is, I’m not sure about Hamas” 🤯 I think by any reasonable measure Hamas are at the very least very very far right.
People just want the violence to stop, but people struggle with apportioning appropriate responsibility for what Hamas does and what they believe. From what I’ve seen, I’ve been trying to keep out of it because I don’t have a strong position on it all so I could be wrong

100% and you can bet all those poor little kids who have lost their entire families, their homes, no hospitals, no food and water will grow up with hate towards their savage aggressors, don’t you see it ? Most of those fighting with Hamas now, have already been through this as kids, and were traumatised and shaped by it.

One day of terror is awful, of course it is, but this is 57 days and nights of terror, it was the same in 2014, 2012, 2008-09, I could go on. What’s the excuse in the West Bank, in Jerusalem, in Golan ? Hamas is a relative recent group, and only in Gaza.

All this I stand with Israel, it’s Hamas shit, no, this is on the Israeli government….totally. I hope to see them in The Hague before I die.

You should be more concerned about the atrocities the Israeli government are carrying out on the innocent Palestinian civilians, and have done since the 60s. There is a genocide happening. Wake up.

I think of hamas as people who've been in a pressure cooker so long they've finally exploded.
I think when you look at any group of people who do truly terrible things there is often years of built up rage and anger. The IRA and their murdering civilians is a prime example. I think people seem to think terrorists who murder innocents are freedom fighting, they're not, they're killing people and it's never justifiable.
We see it with so many things, murderers have usually terrible childhoods, most abusers experience abuse (although most abused people are usually wonderfully kind and will be desperate to break abuse cycles) but we just see when people are completely crushed and angry, when they're at their lowest ebb and vulnerable, they're likely to be groomed by terrorist organisations, they hurt people because they can. Because hurt people hurt people. People who have been on the receiving end of the shitty stick will seek vengeance and they're mostly impartial to who gets the brunt of that, because they're fulled with anger and hate. Its a terrifying cycle and these palestian children who are now orphaned and filled with shell shock and trauma will be commiting atrocities themselves in a few years, because the cycle of horror is so on going.

I hope that I made sense and you can see my train of thought x

@elprup

In the UK, Hamas is a proscribed organisation. Supporting them is a criminal offence. I really doubt that anyone here is stupid enough to incriminate themselves on an internet forum. I also think that the Venn diagram of 'People stupid enough and unpleasant enough to do so' and 'People who are on mumsnet' would show an extremely small (likely non-existent) cross-over.

If you genuinely want to participate in calls for peace, then I'd suggest making contact with local demo organisers or anyone you know who attends demos near you, and asking them about your concerns. If you feel happy and confident to attend, great, and if you don't, then you could look for alternative ways to support humanitarian aid which feel right for you.

There are lots of organisations that you could consider, such as MSF (Doctors without Borders), Islamic Relief, the ICRC.

This is what it boils down to. These current children will grow up and want revenge against Israel for the brutal murders of their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, friends.

Just try to imagine the trauma. The ptsd. Put yourselves in their position. Is it any wonder a terrorist organisation like hamas exists?

The blame lies at Israel's feet. They have brutally occupied these people for 75 years.

Listening to the radio it seems that they struggle to find a Palestinian that doesn't.

@Lwrenagain Do you think the same of Boko Haram, al qu'ida, al shabaab, ISIS, hezbollah,the Muslim brotherhood, Jabhat al-Nusra...
I do understand your thinking, and you are clearly a person with real empathy and concern, but this is a very real and global problem and these groups of extreme Islamic militants are a threat to us all. If me or you, or our children, were put alongside these people they would gladly inflict the worst possible harm on us, and they would feel holy and justified in doing so.

That question is for @braticus too. Is all this really the fault of Israel?

It's hard to put the blame on Jewish children, the youngest being 9 months old, but there you have it in black and white.

I'm afraid it is true. You only have to look at what Israeli school textbooks teach children about Palestinians. If Israelis believe that Palestinians are equal why do they allow settlers to steal land and to terrorise people? They sit back and watch as Palestinian children are torn from their beds and night, tortured and detained without trial. They sit back and watch as Palestinians are denied the right to build homes, denied the right to replace schools that Israel have bulldozed, denied the right to walk down certain streets. You don't do that to people you consider equal. You know that and I know that.

I'm actually sick to death of people pretending they do. Not one person who insists that a lot of or most Israelis are against settlers has been able to tell me why in a democracy if people are against it is it just getting worse year on year. Its all talk. Actions or in this case inaction shows the real feeling.

To clarify I'm speaking of the Israeli government and the people in power. I would never blame a 9 month old baby. That would be insane.

The type of person to suggest that a 9 month old baby can be blamed are the type of people that bomb 9 month old babies and blame them ...

Only a cruel mind can ever bring children into this.

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.
The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.

60% wouldn't even allow an Arab to visit their home. Yup definitely see them as equal.

@OuiOuiKitty what were the results for the same survey in Palestine?

That’s not what the poster is saying I personally cannot justify a ceasefire either , not until Hamas has lost power . Claiming people who don’t support a a ceasefire want to kill all bad lies is the same as saying all Palestinian supporters are Hamas . Both are very different things .
People must ask themselves why are civilians still in the north , why are babies in areas they have been to leave from day one. How do you expect Israel to take Hamas of power exactiy without gunfire and weapons ?

In Palestine they would stone her in public or hand her as it’s often done to “ traitors “

Civilians are still in the north because some of their family members moved to the south and got bombed.

Many civilians moved to the south and realised it wasn't any better so went back to the north to at least die with dignity in their homes.