Do lots of people support Hamas?

[elprup]

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

this.

There definitely are Hamas supporters. I've seen them myself in London on marches and in their cars. Plus Twitter is full of photos of them too. Men and women have been arrested on marches carrying signs showing their support. If you follow the Met police on Twitter you can see for yourself.

I hope not. But a lot of the western media refer to them in a sympathetic way by saying, effectively, that only a few countries consider them to be terrorists, which I feel is very misleading. The current situation started with Hamas committing an act of terror. But they seem to have a very effective propaganda machine that is lapped up in the West. I think the west is being duped by Hamas. It is very telling that none of the nations bordering the conflict have come out strongly in support of Hamas.

Yes, I do think the same with all terrorist organisations, yes. Sorry I couldn't keep this brief, I just wanted to reply in the best way I could.
Have you ever seen a football hooligan from a nice family? I haven't. They've always been from areas with poverty and lack of opportunities. I've never known a wealthy thief or privileged drug dealer. I'm sure these people exist but I presume they're the minority.
I think on a very basic human level, people who are on the bottom rung of the ladder can justify things, such as stabbing another lad in the park because your teams are rivals.
People will cause one another such huge and catastrophic harm over next to fuck all. We see it constantly. Teenagers killing one another, women being gang raped as part of revenge for some non issue that's been created, and these people will justify it to themselves and it scares me quite honestly to death.
But if that's the mentality of people who aren't enduring anywhere near what for example the palestian children are now, then what they're going to be capable of should fill every single one of us with terror.
Seeing those wee kiddos just shaking in fear, hearing the horror stories, we're creating monsters and if I'd witnessed my mother be murdered, my family destroyed, if I'd lived oppressed etc, maybe I'd feel justified?
It terrifies me and again, I cannot and won't condone terrorist attacks. Nor will I condone antisemitism.
But when you're watching war crimes and genocide play out in such a way, no matter how abhorrent the crimes are and yes, so fucking terrifying, I just can't shake away that deep down sadness of, "but I understand your anger" even if their crimes are truly unjustifiable, their reason behind commiting them has to be seen with a reasonable level of understanding.
I think once you hurt civilians you're someone with a desire to hurt people and create chaos. You're someone who actively wants to hurt others and that desire will almost always, surely, come from a place of trauma.

The current situation started with Hamas committing an act of terror.

Actually, while Oct 7th was an abomination and a catalyst for the unfolding horror, this did not start on Oct 7th - 2022/2023 were catastrophic years for Palestinians in Israel across Gaza and the west bank - a continuation of oppressive policies by Israel in Palestine since 1948

I'd think most people on these matches support the Palestinian civilians but a few do support Hamas. There have been a few of the paragliding symbols shown on coats and banners. A few are clearly antisemitic as they have banners with Star of David and nazi symbols intertwined. Marching in the UK or any other country won't make any difference to Israel and what they choose to do to try to get the hostages back or to wipe out Hamas. Those are their two goals I believe.

The media don't like me reporting the actual atrocities that Hamas did. Instead they focus upon the Israeli bombs falling.

You read correctly, most.
As you will see or hear watching listening to any British news broadcasts there is support for the terrorist actions of the Israeli government and others feel Hamas had no choice but to take direct action. My view and that of MOST people I know is that it's all terrorism but not all.

No they are not ! Thousands of Palestinians work study and live in Israel and have the same rights ! Thai is nothing but media BS and someone who never been to Israel

@Tryingmybestadhd

I'll direct you to this, one of many, many reports freely available on the subject
Ramallah, Jerusalem, Paris, 9 November 2023. Since 7 October 2023, FIDH’s Palestinian and Israeli-based member organisations have been gathering mounting evidence of a sharp spike in human rights abuses. In over four weeks, Israel has tightened its system of apartheid, committed mass killings of civilians and other punitive measures amounting to war crimes and crimes against humanity in the Gaza Strip, enabled the killing and displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank, denied their freedom of movement, carried out hundreds of arbitrary arrests and administrative detentions, and subjected Palestinians detainees to ill-treatment and suspected incidents of torture.

https://www.fidh.org/en/region/north-africa-middle-east/israel-palestine/alarming-increase-of-human-rights-violations-against-palestinians-in

Do you really expected Palestinian to be free to walk all over Israel without check points ? When every few weeks they attempt jihadist attacks , when daily they send rockets when daily they are found with weapons when crossing check points ? Do you really believe if they were allowed that it would change anything apart from more Israeli citizens dying ? Do you truly believe Palestinians , most who see being a martyr as a good thing , can live in a modern society within Israel without a lot of outside intervention and re education ?
have you seen what hams does to people he arrests including women and Palestinian men ? And you are wanting Israel to open their doors to such barbaric behaviour with Hamas in power ? It will never happen , it should not happen .

I honestly do not care about the creation of Israel and all that entails , Israel is there , it’s is not going anywhere . Yes I do believe a 2 state solution , properly done and respected ( I’m 100% against illegal settlements in the West Bank ) could be achieved but it will take 2 generations at least and a lot of outside education for Palestinians to be allowed to go places , simply because right now their connection to terrorism, their jahdist believes puts everyone else in danger .

@Tryingmybestadhd yes, I expect Palestinians to be afforded the same human rights as Israelis, the same safety, the same freedom of movement in and out of their country and towns, the same civil rights, to be able to get back into their houses and not have to walk half way around town to be able to access their back garden, to not be subject to racist, punitive measures that go unpunished by settlers and IDF.

To not have their children arrested and held without charge, to not have their children tortured in prison, to not have their children killed as they are walking away. To not have their land stolen, their monuments in THEIR land bulldozed. To not have their minimum calories calculated by Israel and then only that amount of food allowed in to Gaza. To be allowed to collect the fucking rainwater and that not to be banned by Israel. And I could go on for days.

I do not expect every Palestinian to be punished for the actions of Hamas. And it's a punitive and horrible attitude to want them to be.

It was less than that and it was in 2006. Since half the population are under 18, they weren't allowed to vote. How many of those being killed today voted for Hamas?

How many dead Palestinians is enough for those who claim that Israel has the right to defend itself?

I'm siding with all the respected Human Rights organisations on this one - Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, United Nations and all the others calling this out. I trust their expert judgement on what is and isn't racist apartheid oppression of an entire people. On what is and isn't necessary to control terrorism. Treat humans like humans FGS.

People can try to smear them all they like - it only makes me respect them more for calling out these atrocities. They, after all, are the experts on this stuff.

Whilst Gaza is being destroyed, probably not. I can't imagine many Palestinians feeling particularly supportive of either Hamas or Israel.

Oh and further to my comment upthread, let's face it, Israel's been oppressing Palestinians for decades before Hamas were even a thing. Shitty behaviour for decades.

Can anyone see a light in the tunnel? They are saying we will destroy Hamas and then they swop Hamas for hostages. No one believes in two state solution and no one believes in one state solution so is there any solution to this conflict?

When a man was protesting against Hamas at one of the marches he was very quickly shut down, shoved around and surrounded by face covered men.

Why?

They're not swapping Hamas for hostages. They're releasing people who, in some cases, have never been tried. I don't think even Israel has claimed those being released are Hamas.

At the pro-Palestine march on November the 11th, most of the violence and arrests was of right wing thugs opposing the march, why?

A 2 state solution with outside control for palestine and new defined borders controlled by IN or similar is the only way . Reeducation of children on both sides and above all reeducation on believes in o Palestine , radical Islam needs to be banned , seeing being Marty’s as good is not a way of living or raising children ,teaching them jihadist is the way is neve yeh answer . But it’s indoctrinated everywhere hence why Palestine needs outside help , to prevent another terrorist grouping taking place of Hamas . It will take a very long time to solve this issue

They are right wing thugs and pop up to cause trouble. They were arrested. I condemn them.

There I answered your question.

You merely ignored my question about why the man protesting hamas was treated the way he was and instead did the usual whataboutery.

Care to answer the question?

@Tryingmybestadhd
I have to agree that the outside control is the only option with regional countries taking a more proactive stance. But for this to happen US needs to have a genuine reason to resolve the conflict and take a more balanced view.

reeducation on believes in o Palestine

Sounds chilling, echoes of Nazi Germany and Uighur "reeducation" in China.